[00:05] <siretart> Hobbsee: he improved? ;)
[00:06] <Hobbsee> siretart: no, but it's the motu council's job to put conditions on it, not mine. I've been told by jono that if we (any of us) feel that the MC is not doing their job in this matter, we should email him, with proof, and he has promised to look into it.
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[00:06] <Hobbsee> siretart: and/or to go to the CC>
[00:06] <Hobbsee> siretart: as it is, the policy on ban evasion is supposed to go in front of the motu meeting at the next meeting.
[00:07] <sebner> persia: and how can I mark/let others know that something isn't necessary?
[00:07] <Hobbsee> siretart: i presume the part w.r.t. not doing their job and jono still applies for that.
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[00:07] <persia> Umm. MC doesn't control IRC. IRC Council is the place to determine who is banned. MC does have a general request that Marco not participate in Development until he can get a couple developers to request he be granted permission to participate again.
[00:07] <persia> sebner: Just ask here.
[00:07] <huats> pochu:
[00:07] <huats> ping :)
[00:07] <Hobbsee> persia: i've been told it's not my domain. if you don't think that's the case, you'll really need to take that up with jono - or email the irc mailing list requesting the ban, from the council.
[00:08] <Hobbsee> persia: but, mere people are not to act.
[00:08] <Hobbsee> it must be the councils.
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[00:08] <sebner> Not necessary on ubuntuwire; simgear <-- ubuntu doesn't support those platforms (debian fixed a FTBFS on Alpha, HPPA, and S/390)
[00:08] <persia> Hobbsee: I'll chat with Jono, but won't request a ban unless the new permission to speak is abused.
[00:08] <siretart> err, aren't we all a bit overexagerating here?
[00:08] <Hobbsee> as soren rightly points out, motu is not an anarchy.
[00:09] <persia> sebner: Oh, for those? Add a comment in the comment field.
[00:09] <sebner> persia: there is a comment field? XD XD XD
[00:09] * persia thought there was, unless there was a regression in rcbugs
[00:09] <sebner> persia: no there is
[00:09] <sebner> persia: but my eyes are not the best ^^
[00:10] <persia> siretart: Likely only being extra pedantic...
[00:10] <Hobbsee> siretart: what makes you say that?
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[00:15] <jussio1> arg, can someone link me to the help page for ppa's can seem to find it... sigh
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[00:16] <Iulian> jussio1: https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
[00:16] <siretart> Hobbsee: because I didn't intend to provoke a discussion about responsibilities of decisions, and certainly not discuss responsibilities of powers of our institutions
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[00:17] <jussio1> Iulian: thnk you :)
[00:17] <Hobbsee> siretart: true. i was also using some of hte information that i'd gained on the recent conference call with jono, which may be of use to other people :)
[00:18] <Hobbsee> which ended up being relevant to the previous comments
[00:18] <ScottK2> How the heck did he get unbanned?
[00:19] <sebner> persia: 1 done. More people should work on the list because 1) more fixes for ubuntu 2) more users could join 5-a-day ^^
[00:19] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: i did it.
[00:19] <ScottK2> Why?
[00:19] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: wasn't my domain to ban in the first place. see the first few lines.
[00:20] * ScottK2 disagrees.
[00:20] <ScottK2> persia: What possible benifit is there to not having the ban.
[00:21] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: IRC ops aren't allowed to ban people?
[00:21] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: in the eyes of various developers, not if they're acting on their own, or not if the respective councils haven't agreed to.
[00:21] <Hobbsee> unless it's spam, etc,
[00:21] <Pici> ScottK2: I'm guessing that they are deeming it a conflict of interest, althoguh I disagree.
[00:21] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: that being said, anyone can get ops in here...
[00:22] <persia> ScottK: Shorter ban list on freenode?
[00:22] <ScottK2> persia: Fewer developers is also I likely benifit
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[00:22] <persia> ScottK: Sure. I don't personally care if there is a ban or not, so long as Marco is not active in this channel.
[00:22] <persia> Further, I don't presume to speak regarding IRC policy.
[00:22] <Hobbsee> persia: we're nowhere near the limit for here. #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic, however....
[00:23] <sebner> We want to remove python-xml before release. Also libxml?
[00:23] <Hobbsee> persia: you'll now be relying on his own restrant, or a MC council decision for that.
[00:23] <ScottK2> sebner: No. Just python-xml
[00:23] <Hobbsee> persia: which is probably the way it should ahve been originally
[00:23] <sebner> ScottK: k, thx
[00:23] <ScottK2> How much evidence do we need that his own restraint is non-existant
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[00:25] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: then you collect evidence, and go to jono/the CC that the MC isn't doing it's job.
[00:25] <ScottK2> persia: I gather then that kmos is still not fired, just being requested.
[00:25] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: if they didn't act.
[00:25] <Hobbsee> er, don't act, in a reasonable form of time.
[00:25] <persia> Hobbsee: I'm confused? There is an MC decision that Marco should not participate in development, and ask ScottK points out, he has not demonstrated restraint.
[00:25] <ScottK2> We're way past that
[00:25] <persia> s/ask/as/
[00:25] <\sh> now we have divergence
[00:25] <ScottK2> persia: So we are undoing the one thing that's actually been done to restrain him.
[00:25] <\sh> really
[00:25] <\sh> Source: flashplugin-nonfree-pulse
[00:25] <\sh> which is our libflashsupport ;)
[00:26] <persia> ScottK: Well, one of the things, but yes, and I'm not attempting to defend that removal.
[00:26] <ScottK2> persia: I do not have the spare cycles to deal with Kmos or a do nothing MC.
[00:26] * Hobbsee emails the ML
[00:26] <persia> ScottK: Umm. I agree with you. I don't wish to see Kmos back.
[00:27] <\sh> hmmm? what's wrong again with kmos?
[00:27] <ScottK2> Then fix it. You're management. I'm not.
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[00:27] <ScottK2> \sh: The IRC ban has been removed.
[00:28] <\sh> ScottK2: so he's back in #u-d...
[00:28] <\sh> I see
[00:28] <ScottK2> Dunno. Just know the possibility exists.
[00:28] <persia> The issue is more that MC doesn't control IRC. Once I understand why the ban removal was requested, I'll see what needs doing to have it either reinstated or someone to assure me that the lack of a ban will not be a problem.
[00:28] <ScottK2> I don't see what possible reason we would have for not wanting him banned.
[00:28] <\sh> 14:27 -!- Kmos [n=gothicx@unaffiliated/kmos]
[00:28] <\sh> 14:27 -!- ircname : Marco Rodrigues
[00:28] <\sh> 14:27 -!- channels : #ubuntu-devel
[00:28] <ScottK2> The rest is just bureacracy
[00:28] <Hobbsee> \sh: it was a quiet for a long time.
[00:29] <sebner> \sh: btw, wb
[00:30] <\sh> TBH, we can't force kmos to not use freenode services, until someone from canonical buys the network ,->, but I would be happy, if we can ignore him only, that's it...all technical solutions will not help us to help him with his social problems
[00:30] * Hobbsee shrugs. it's out of my hands now :)
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[00:31] <ScottK2> \sh: I'm well beyond worrying about his social problems as long as he has them elsewhere.
[00:31] * \sh hopes that this is not bringing back any stress into this community :(
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[00:32] <\sh> ScottK2: that's what I mean, we can't k-line him...the only way is to ignore
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[00:32] <ScottK2> \sh: As long as he can't speak. I don't care if he's in channel.
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[00:34] <ScottK2> It appears to me that the best way to get an IRC ban removed is to make a new LP account and go against what the MC asks.
[00:35] <persia> Well, LP accounts and IRC bans aren't related, and any attempts at direct contribution from Marco will not currently be well received.
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[00:36] <ScottK2> persia: Just look at action and reaction. You may separate those in your head, but that's the net effect.
[00:36] <Hobbsee> mail sent.
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[00:36] <persia> ScottK: These are coincidence, but I can see how they may be linked.
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[00:39] <ScottK2> I agree that the timing is coincidental, but what has happened has happened
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[00:40] <\sh> whooza....nexuiz hit debian incoming
[00:40] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: the LP account was unrelated. i've been asked to help figure ways to deal with the ban evasion, too. i presume you are as well
[00:41] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: They are separate issues from an Ubuntu management perspective, but the net result is the guy evades the ban and he gets his IRC restored.
[00:42] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: No. I haven't been asked.
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[00:42] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: the two were coincidental.
[00:42] <ScottK2> Yet what happened happened.
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[00:43] <Hobbsee> sure, but you're putting words into people's mouths, which happen to be accurate, if you insist there's a link.
[00:43] <Hobbsee> er, which happen *not* to be accurate.
[00:43] <Hobbsee> which is dangerous
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[00:44] <ScottK2> I don't mean to imply that anything about the timing is intentional.
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[00:45] <\sh> ScottK2: you can always overcome an irc channel ban...
[00:46] <ScottK2> \sh: Agreed, but that was actually working. Things have been so much nicer here since.
[00:46] <\sh> if you don#t hang onto your nick, you just forget about it choose a new one, reg it, push no realname in it...etc.
[00:46] <ScottK2> I think the whole atmosphere of MOTU has improved.
[00:46] <ScottK2> Agreed.
[00:46] <\sh> ScottK2: for sure...
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[00:46] <\sh> ScottK2: but I don't think kmos would leave his nickname behind, just because of ubuntu :)
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[00:47] <\sh> but there was a decision, and this decision is now at stake
[00:47] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: i think it would be wrong to assume that the MC would not have seen the change since he's left, and not work in the best interest of MOTU to keep it more productive.
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[00:48] <apachelogger> uhm, lintian calls writing GTK instead of GTK+ a spelling-error
[00:48] <apachelogger> I wonder if it does the same with QT instead of Qt :P
[00:48] <\sh> apachelogger: if not, send diff ;)
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[00:49] <\sh> but as we have motu release here...
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[00:50] <\sh> ScottK2: Hobbsee sistpoty|work : do we need for this patch (bug #198861) an FFe?
[00:51] <\sh> bah...ubuto is dead ;)
[00:51] <\sh> and can't parse data
[00:51] <\sh> bug #198861
[00:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 198861 in claws-mail "There's no flag to enable hildon interface when building for lpia" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198861
[00:51] <\sh> ah now
[00:52] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: I'm really not very knowledgeable about all the different councils. Nor am I particularly interested in the bureacracy and frictions between the various bits that have removed what I consider something very helpful.