Stuff

<Arwen> Okita, use -sid
<Arwen> if you want the styles, you have to create a temporary file with mplayer's yuv4mpeg output
<ShadowJK> First step would be to have it play in MPlayer :)
<Arwen> or use AviSynth
<Okita> DogBoy: Ah, I see
<Okita> Arwen: But if I don't want styles, -sid will work?
<Arwen> it should. -sid number
<Arwen> and people still use SSA? I thought it was replaced by more modern formats like SRT already.
<DogBoy> what's more modern about that
<Okita> I just want to convert from mkv to avi
<DogBoy> gah, here I am feeding Arwen troll again
<Arwen> "SSA is bloated and contains many unneccessary formatting commands that range from vector drawing to text animation."
<Okita> And the subtitles got dumped out in SSA
<Arwen> "Its syntax is a mess and thus there has only ever been one functional renderer for the format, the development of which has ceased entirely."
<DogBoy> Okita, sometimes you can do that by just saving the stream as avi using virtualdubmod
<Arwen> "It is an artifact of the past that is simply not needed today, much like interlacing."
<DogBoy> Arwen stuff it
<Okita> DogBoy: This is just an mkv I was handed, I didn't create it
<DogBoy> yea but it's possible to save it as avi unless the codec used is not compatible
<DogBoy> worth a try, you don't necessarily have to re-encode it
<Arwen> "Outside of use in certain fansubbing circles, it has already been superceded by the superior SubRip Text format, which has a clean plain-text human-readable layout. Except within some die-hard 'anime' communities, it is considered an extinct format."
<Okita> But it has soft subs, and they won't suddenly turn into hard subs, right? =)
<DogBoy> at least look at it with mkvinfo
<Arwen> eh? if you use MEncoder with -sid it will hardsub your video
<ArneB> Might also need -vf expand.
<Okita> That's what I'm doing?
<Arwen> yes, plz to add more sharp edges to the video
<DogBoy> Arwen, did someone say they cared about your opinion about ssa
<Arwen> do I care whether or not they did?
<DogBoy> my point exactly
<Arwen> my point exactly
<DogBoy> essence of a troll
<Arwen> it's not a troll if it's true
<Okita> What does the sid option mean?
<Arwen> subtitle ID number
<Okita> Like, what number should I put following it?
<Arwen> hmm, that's a good question.
<DogBoy> where are you getting this crap from anyway Arwen 
<Arwen> DogBoy, the Multimedia Wiki
<DogBoy> "superceded by the superior SubRip Text format"
<DogBoy> hehe
<Arwen> and it's true, SSA sucks
<Arwen> and the end user can specify their own styling anyway
<Arwen> so it's really just code bloat
<DogBoy> specify it how
<Arwen> with -font?
<Arwen> and -fontsize?
<DogBoy> and color?
<Arwen> mm hmm
<DogBoy> like what, show me
<DogBoy> you're so smart
<Arwen> -ass-color?
<DogBoy> oh...
<Dark_Shikari_> sounds nasty
<DogBoy> hehe
<Dark_Shikari_> ass color
<Arwen> lol
<Okita> I tried -sid 0, but that didnt' do it
<Arwen> my ass is BLACK
<DogBoy> I guess this is how the bible got started
<Arwen> %B%IIRC has overrides too
<Arwen> hmm, that didn't work
<DogBoy> someone said it was the word of god
<Arwen> RAWR
<Okita> okay, so here's what I did: "mencoder -ovc copy -oac copy -sub subtitle.ssa -sid 0 -o output.avi input.avi"
* CTho|zzz is now known as CTho
<Okita> input.avi is the repacked mkv already, just needs subtitles
<ArneB> You can't use -ovc copy and change the video.
<Arwen> you could just mux the subtitles into it with avimuxgui
<ArneB> It just copies the raw frames.
<DogBoy> yea but that would be stupid
<Arwen> and why would that be so?
<DogBoy> ?
<Arwen> <DogBoy> yea but that would be stupid
<DogBoy> you suggested it, defend your dumb suggestion
<Okita> So what do I put besides "copy"?
<Arwen> you called it stupid, you elaborate why
<ArneB> Okita: Whatever codec you want.
<CTho> i'm watching tv with "mplayer /dev/video0", and my config is set up with cache=8192.  i can pause with spacebar... can i move backwards/forwards a few seconds?
<Arwen> or is this just another ad hominem in disguise?
<CTho> how does the cache grow when i have it paused?
<Arwen> DogBoy, morover, it's commonly accepted that the one who makes an accusation is the one that needs to defend it
<ArneB> Arwen: The one who makes a suggestion defends it.
<ArneB> Or rather: A point.
<DogBoy> did you have one?
<Arwen> I said that subtitles can be muxed into AVI with AviMuxGUI.
<DogBoy> it's just so much smoke, most of what you say
<Arwen> No point there.
<DogBoy> exactly
<Arwen> You said it was stupid, a point.
<Arwen> You explain.
<DogBoy> you could also far green cheese
<Arwen> far?
<DogBoy> s/far/fart/
<Arwen> actually, I probably couldn't
<Arwen> So your analogy doesn't make sense.
<DogBoy> troll...
<Arwen> ad hominem
<ArneB> But true. :/
<Arwen> "An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]"
<Arwen> explain?
<Dark_Shikari_> subtitles in AVI
<Dark_Shikari_> lol
* Dark_Shikari_ is now known as Dark_Shikari
<Arwen> subtitles in AVI have existed for a long time
<Dark_Shikari> Yes, much like B-frames in AVI
<DogBoy> and so?
<Dark_Shikari> doesn't mean they should exist
<Arwen> and are far more compatible in general than subtitles in MKV or OGM
<Dark_Shikari> doesn't mean they're supported by the standard
<Dark_Shikari> um
<Dark_Shikari> the AVI standard does not allow subtitle streams
<Dark_Shikari> -.-
<DogBoy> it was a dumb suggestion
<Dark_Shikari> much like it doesn't allow B-frames
<Arwen> the "standard" supports at least 100 streams of *any kind*
<Dark_Shikari> not any kind
<Dark_Shikari> it doesn't support VBR audio, for exmaple
<Dark_Shikari> *for example
<Dark_Shikari> that is a "stream of any kind"
<Arwen> but it does
<Dark_Shikari> no, it doesn't.
<DogBoy> like chris rock said, you can drive a car with your feet, but that don't make it a good idea
<ArneB> Dark_Shikari: Actually, while the AVI standard does not allow B-Frames, it does indeed allow subtitles and multiple audio streams.
<Arwen> MP3-VBR-in-AVI is a dirty hack This is probably the piece of disinformation most widely spread about AVI. Seeking in an MP3-VBR audio stream in DirectShow works as if it was a video stream, not an audio stream: Each chunk contains data for a constant amount of time (usually 33 or 40 ms for video, or 24 ms for MP3 audio at 48 kHz). The chunk/frame to be loaded is just [time] / [time per frame], as if it was a video stream. The way MP3-VBR is sought in is
<Arwen>  valid for AVI files. Maybe it was not intended to be used for audio streams, maybe it was, fact is, the specification doesn't limit any particular seeking strategy to any particular stream type! There is a value in the stream headers, called dwSampleSize, which is 0 in order to trigger VBR stream seeking. This is officially documented in the MSDN and not a hack, bug or whatever. The way MP3-VBR and AAC are stored in AVI are specified and completely com
<Arwen> pliant with the AVI file specification. 
<Okita> mencoder -ovc help lists like 4 codecs, and I don't see xivd, x264, or anything like that
<DogBoy> hehe, he just continues trolling even harder
<Dark_Shikari> thats because you need to install libx264
<Dark_Shikari> libxvid
<Dark_Shikari> etc
<ArneB> Dark_Shikari: Of course, you still shouldn't use them, because that stuff is funky and there is next to no support for it. :)
<Dark_Shikari> Of course
<Arwen> DogBoy, explain.
<Dark_Shikari> Arwen, by the same logic
<Dark_Shikari> AC3 is allowed in MP4
<Dark_Shikari> It is, indeed, supported by the standard
<Dark_Shikari> You can put it in as a private stream
<DogBoy> now we're discussing your nonsense remark in detail
<Dark_Shikari> of course, since no decoder in the world will recognize such a thing
<Dark_Shikari> its pointless to do so
<Okita> Dark_Shikari: Dark_Shikari: Installing the xvid package wouldn't get me that?
<Arwen> except, I have VBR MP3 in AVI
<Dark_Shikari> putting a subtitle stream in AVI is exactly the same thing as putting AC3 in an MP4 private stream
<Arwen> and Microsoft's splitter and decoders handle it fine
<Dark_Shikari> Okita--you'll have to compile mplayer with libxvid
<Arwen> and VSFilter handles subs in AVI just fine too
<Dark_Shikari> Arwen, that doesn't mean its compatible with the standard
<Dark_Shikari> nor does it mean its a good thing to do
<Arwen> AVI. Microsoft IS the standard.
<Dark_Shikari> Arwen, AVI is not by Microsoft
<Dark_Shikari> AVI 2.0 is by the OpenDML group
<Arwen> zzz
<DogBoy> and you're talking about _if_ you can do it, not if it's a good idea
<Dark_Shikari> Most "AVI" containers are not Microsoft AVI-compatible
<DogBoy> you still haven't defended your initial remark
<Arwen> if it can be done and if it works, it's inherently a good idea
<Okita> Dark_Shikari: I was afraid that might be the case
<Dark_Shikari> Just because I *can* make a file with H.264 video and B-references
<DogBoy> hence trolling
<Dark_Shikari> and Vorbis audio
<Dark_Shikari> does not mean its a good idea
<Dark_Shikari> *An AVI file
<Dark_Shikari> Arwen, so therefore, AC3 in MP4 is a good idea?
<Dark_Shikari> Vorbis in MP4 is a good idea?
<Dark_Shikari> MP3 in JPEG is a good idea?
<Dark_Shikari> > if it can be done and if it works, it's inherently a good idea
<DogBoy> you're just compounding your initial nonsensical remark Arwen 
<Dark_Shikari> FLAC in PNG is a good idea?
<Arwen> how does MP3 in JPEG work?
<Dark_Shikari> TAR in FLAC is a good idea?
<Dark_Shikari> You can do MP3 in JPEG in a number of ways
<Dark_Shikari> encode the MP3 data as image data, and stuff it in the main stream
<Dark_Shikari> or attach it as a private stream
<Dark_Shikari> Loren Merrit demonstrated putting TAR files in FLAC files
<Dark_Shikari> doesn't mean it isn't absurd
<Arwen> you're arguing by comparing my suggestion to absurdities
<Dark_Shikari> anyways, I'm starting a game of Starcraft.  So have fun trolling.
<Dark_Shikari> but you just said
<Dark_Shikari> if it can be done and if it works, it's inherently a good idea
<Dark_Shikari> if it can be done and if it works, it's inherently a good idea
<Dark_Shikari> if it can be done and if it works, it's inherently a good idea
<Arwen> the fact is that subs and VBR in AVI work fine. They don't even have any significant disadvantages.
<Dark_Shikari> ;)
<Dark_Shikari> anyways
<Dark_Shikari> starcraft
<Arwen> so you've strayed from the point (which I maintain as being correct)
<DogBoy> which was
<Arwen> that putting subs in the AVI was a viable and perfectly valid alternative to hardsubbing?
<DogBoy> eh?
<DogBoy> why is that
<Arwen> <Arwen> the fact is that subs and VBR in AVI work fine. They don't even have any significant disadvantages.
<Arwen> you have yet to list one
<DogBoy> why is it any better than just having a separate file .srt?
<Arwen> because you reduce the number of files you're carrying around?
<DogBoy> which is very editable
<DogBoy> you're being ludicrous
<ArneB> It is not a viable alternative if you want to play the file on a hardware player, which is usually the reason people want to hardsub stuff.
<Arwen> why is having audio in video better than just having separate mp3s?
<ArneB> Better locality of data? :)
<DogBoy> I guess getting Arwen to admit he's trolling is not going to happen
<ArneB> Of course not.
<DogBoy> but I'm convinced anyway
<Arwen> because I believe 100% in my statements
<DogBoy> and that's enough
<Arwen> just because you don't agree does not make me a troll
<DogBoy> what's to agree or disagree with?
<DogBoy> it's got nothing to do with what Okita was asking
<DogBoy> it's more about stroking your ego
<Okita> Is there a Linux tool that can convert SSA->SRT real quick?
<Arwen> Okita, Aegisub
<Okita> I feel like that would solve these problems pretty quick
<Arwen> I think MPlayer can dump subs to SRT format too
<DogBoy> sabbu works too
<Arwen> DogBoy, he asked about converting an MKV to AVI.
<DogBoy> yeap it sure can
<Arwen> so within that scope it has a lot to do
<DogBoy> I know what he asked
<Okita> Mplayer itself can just go SSA->SRT?
<DogBoy> -dumpsrtsub
<DogBoy> that's a yes
<DogBoy> heh
<Arwen> you can also do -dumpjacosub and -dumpsami and -dumpmicrodvdsub and a lot of other things
<Okita> DogBoy: But I can't even get the SSA subtitles to show on top of the video
<DogBoy> yea well, exactly
<DogBoy> but according to Arwen they're obsolete
<Arwen> they are... even the 'anime' community is moving farther and farther away from it
<Arwen> towards the "ASS" format and its proposed successor to "AS5" format
<DogBoy> but from Okita's comment we can see that your whole rant was besides the point
<DogBoy> which of course we already knew
<DogBoy> <Arwen> "Outside of use in certain fansubbing circles, it has already been superceded by the superior SubRip Text format,
<DogBoy> blah blah blah
<Arwen> it's true
<DogBoy> it's also besides the point
<DogBoy> lol
<Arwen> who cares?
<Arwen> the point is what you make it to be
<DogBoy> said the troll
<Arwen> dogs don't get to comment on intricate human communication
<Dark_Shikari> stop the ad hominem
<DogBoy> I was just pointing out that you tend to tend to spout off more than help out a great deal of the time
<Arwen> and I was just pointing out that instead of helping out you switch to attacking me a great deal of the time
<DogBoy> uh huh
<Okita> the "-ass" option doesn't work?
<Arwen> not with MEncoder
<DogBoy> I said that way back
<Okita> Yeah, this is mplayer, I'm trying that other workaround with the mkfifo
<DogBoy> before this turned into a pissing contest