Dracone says:
Ok.
Dracone says:
So...
Dracone says:
Here's the thing
Dracone says:
I'll give it to you straight now because it's getting really stupid.
Dracone says:
Now, we've always been open about scrimming AA, but it's worn us down, the lengthy, drawn out games.
Dracone says:
A lot of other people are agreeing.
j-cool says:
how exactly are we drawing out games?
Dracone says:
NT came back to be a fun clan but it's just still very hard to do with the way you guys play.
Dracone says:
:/
j-cool says:
and please do tell me how do we play?
Dracone says:
Honestly, it just happens. You guys are good and all, but there are some things you do that people like us in NT don't like, things that don't sit well with us.l
Dracone says:
You guys are cool and all and don't flame, but things like
j-cool says:
and what do we do, that you dislike?
Dracone says:
Camping for multiple goons without dretching...that's just an example.
Dracone says:
It's just something that ends up drawing things out more.
j-cool says:
you guys do that as well...
Dracone says:
I know it's valid but
Dracone says:
No, we don't. We used to camp for 1 goon
Dracone says:
And go side
j-cool says:
as do we
Dracone says:
Now, we dretch when the enemies come
j-cool says:
but we dont go jumping after crouching humans
Dracone says:
Well it's just very very hard to state...hmmm
j-cool says:
alright lets scrim right now
Dracone says:
Too conservative might be the phrase for it.
j-cool says:
no camping whats so ever
Dracone says:
Equi really doesn't feel like it just right now, and 3of12 doesn't have time. Tomorrow, if we can do this, we will.
Dracone says:
We
j-cool says:
but really tell me honestly
j-cool says:
are you saying aa only wins matches because of camping?
j-cool says:
because it does sound like it
Dracone says:
It has nothing to do with winning.
Dracone says:
You know well enough we don't care much in any way about losing to you guys. We messed around in one of the last scrims we had, and it came down to being boring anyhow.
j-cool says:
the most we camp is for a goon thats about it
j-cool says:
so your telling me you've never played serious against us?
Dracone says:
No, we have. The old NT always played serious against you guys.
Dracone says:
But.
Dracone says:
Now, we're looking at different things, different ways of going about scrimming
Dracone says:
We don't care that much about winning. If we use basis and shit, we don't care if we lose.
Dracone says:
If we want to play seriously, we do.
Dracone says:
But it's not always the fun way to do things, so we don't play seriously often anymore.
j-cool says:
well apparently the only good clan you've scrimed is aa, why dont you try scriming zubs or opp and see if its any difference
Dracone says:
We haven't had the chance to, and if we had it, we would have scrimmed them by now. I talked to Apple about having a scrim but Amine got bitchy and stopped it.
j-cool says:
but if you didnt care about losing
j-cool says:
why did you kill pk's base?
j-cool says:
they had you beat until you did that
Dracone says:
I asked my members what they wanted to do.
Dracone says:
They said that.
Dracone says:
They were beating us in the first place because of us screwing around and me being a tard.
j-cool says:
that means you guys do care about winning.
Dracone says:
I can't decide what my members want to do every time.
Dracone says:
If they want to try to win, we do it. But if we lose in the end, it's not the biggest deal. The point is that sometimes we need to show that we can win to keep the image we want.
Dracone says:
Normally
Dracone says:
If equi didn't refuse
Dracone says:
To use anything but goon
j-cool says:
of course you care about winning
j-cool says:
dont give me that bs, other wise nt wouldnt be a competive clan
Dracone says:
Ok...alright, you've got a point. I shouldn't have been using "we." We have a good few members that don't like using all the different things, and it's my fault for looking them up. Still, even though NT as a clan has cares for winning, we don't prioritize it, that's a fact.
Dracone says:
We scrimmed you guys and moved our base forward into mid and got totally owned. It was so fun though, but that was all we've had.
j-cool says:
and the round before that?
j-cool says:
your telling you didnt play serious?
Dracone says:
The hardest part of explaining this is trying to tell you that we're using different things but being serious in our attempts to execute the different plans.
j-cool says:
and what does aa do?
Dracone says:
That makes it difficult for us to play and have fun at the same time?
Dracone says:
Hmmmm, well...
Dracone says:
I think I can summarize this in one statement...
Dracone says:
You guys play too seriously for us to have fun. And I will not put blame on anyone, it's not our fault nor your fault, but the way we play does not mix in a way that gives us the experience we would like to have most of the time, not just a few times.
j-cool says:
winning is fun.
Dracone says:
I can't tell AA to change, but I can't tell my members NT has to change back to being serious all the time. I'm sorry, but it's just not fun for us. We've given you guys hard fights, multiple ties, but it's not fun throughout it.
j-cool says:
and aa doesnt mess around in scrims?
j-cool says:
we built our base in the hall against opp
Dracone says:
I wasn't there to see that. Nonetheless, it's good that you guys did SOMETHING different. But it doesn't change the fact that we don't see things like that with our NT/AA scrims.
Dracone says:
You don't seem to lighten up in the least against us. Not even with how we play now.
Dracone says:
Although I can't say we stay consistently non 100% serious through every scrim with you guys, we try at the beginnings but it turns out different.
j-cool says:
in short you fine the scrim fun when you win
Dracone says:
No.
Dracone says:
Well
j-cool says:
i get it
j-cool says:
its fun to win
Dracone says:
We've beaten you guys before. We know we CAN beat you, but we want to try other ways of doing things.
j-cool says:
all the more reason to scrim
Dracone says:
Don't make it seem like we're afraid of losing. We've lost more times than we've won against you, and it hasn't stopped us until now, when we feel it's not fun anymore to go through the 2 hours we usually have.
j-cool says:
to beat us
Dracone says:
To beat you once means nothing though.
Dracone says:
One good scrim.
j-cool says:
oh you mean one "fun" scrim
Dracone says:
You can't deny that winning a scrim makes it fun either. You guys put up a fight every scrim we've had. I can't recall any times we've had a scrim where you guys built randomly or used far different strategies
Dracone says:
Remember that Tremor game?
Dracone says:
That sucked.
Dracone says:
Absolutely sucked.
Dracone says:
But we wanted that.
j-cool says:
running around with ckits
Dracone says:
We want to try to get to different maps sometime
j-cool says:
we dont scrim to lose
Dracone says:
Remember, we still haven't denied the scrim tomorrow with the ''no camping what so ever"
j-cool says:
yes, we mess around
j-cool says:
but we still do want to win
j-cool says:
how about no share?
Dracone says:
Was just about to suggest that.
Dracone says:
No timed evos maybe
Dracone says:
Something
Dracone says:
One last thing you might already know, we're not the only people that feel this way.
Dracone says:
Applejuice was trying to convince Zubs about these things as well, however different Zubs is.
Dracone says:
Amine doesn't care though.
Dracone says:
They wanted to have a no share, no timed evos/credits game against you guys as well. Dunno if it ever happened.
j-cool says:
heh
j-cool says:
well you should watch the demo aavszubs on youtube
j-cool says:
check who camped
j-cool says:
the whole game
Dracone says:
Yeah. I wouldn't expect any less. Amine and men are both too addicted to the whole ''valid strategy'' thing.
j-cool says:
apple refuses to scrim
Dracone says:
Thanks for reminding me of that.
Dracone says:
Umm
Dracone says:
See, my recent ruling
Dracone says:
About all this
Dracone says:
Was to ask the members who were on
j-cool says:
?
Dracone says:
If they wanted to scrim you guys, and if so, it'd be serious because that's all we'd been able to get with you guys.
Dracone says:
If they wanted to scrim you guys, and if so, it'd be serious because that's all we'd been able to get with you guys.
Dracone says:
So if they wanted a fun scrim, they wouldn't get it really, but if they wanted a play-to-win scrim, then this was their scrim
Dracone says:
I didn't cancel out all playing to win strategies.
Dracone says:
Just didn't let the losing affect our activity in scrimming certain clans. But the mindset of my members doesn't seem to suit long, drawn out scrimmages.
j-cool says:
what you did against pk was winning to feel good =/
j-cool says:
because you can screw around and still win
Dracone says:
Well, it's hard to say anything except that there's no reason to screw around TO lose.
Dracone says:
If we intentionally lost, that wouldn't be NT.
Dracone says:
Hmmm
Dracone says:
Let's see, how to put this? We break the odds and then try to win.
j-cool says:
exactly.
j-cool says:
so in the end, you do care about winning.
Dracone says:
Not the actual yay we won ending, but the ways in which we win.
Dracone says:
We got owned that round we moved mid, but we were laughing our asses off.
j-cool says:
you play to win
Dracone says:
We play to find new ways of winning. But if we lose in the process, it isn't important.
Dracone says:
Sure, we'll be frustrated a little bit, because that's losing, but it will not make us stop.
Dracone says:
We'll think of different ways to try to win, instead of just going back to being serious.
Dracone says:
That last round
Dracone says:
Against PK
Dracone says:
I'll admit, that wasn't the best at showing that. But Equi can't do much with basi or mara anyways.
Dracone says:
He needs to learn
Dracone says:
I'll admit, that wasn't the best at showing that. But Equi can't do much with basi or mara anyways.
Dracone says:
He needs to learn
Dracone says:
So it's not only the clan mindset, but the individual members need to learn things.
j-cool says:
so in the end were arguing about nothing
Dracone says:
I brought this up because it's something you should know, because if we're not in the mood to scrim a long scrim, we won't scrim.
j-cool says:
saying you dont care about winning isnt the right way to go.
Dracone says:
Long rounds, maybe that's the better term.
Dracone says:
No, it's not. I'll admit I get really pissed when we're trying hard, with or without new and different strategies, and we lose. But it doesn't make us quit.
Dracone says:
Doesn't make me quit, that's certain
j-cool says:
and thats good for you guys
Dracone says:
During the time where we clashed pretty evenly, always ending with ties or wins one way or the other...
Dracone says:
The times we won didn't make me stop telling my members to keep thinking of better strategies and new formations and shit.
j-cool says:
you've been contradicting yourself this whole conversation =/
Dracone says:
What does that last statement contradict? Tell me so I can fix it up a bit.
Dracone says:
Realize what I did.
j-cool says:
im talking in general
j-cool says:
this whole conversation
Dracone says:
Yeah. Ok, I was looking for an example, but...I do do that a lot. I'm having a lot of trouble explaining this all, and it's not the most logical topic to begin with, not the most logical clan either though.
Dracone says:
What I came to talk about in the beginning was just that scrimming you guys isn't as fun as it used to be. It's gotten boring, it's the same thing over and over. In the scrims where we tried new things, it felt the same, except that one round. We keep getting forced into playing seriously against you guys...
Dracone says:
I'll admit it, yes we always want to beat YOU guys because it's just a rivalry we've always seemed to have, but my members and me have gotten tired of going to do that and coming out with a tie or a loss and 2-3 hours wasted. Yes, it's because we didn't win, but the time that it took up is what really makes it suck.
Dracone says:
Sure, we could start up again, start being the risk takers we always were and chancing it anyhow, but it doesn't seem fun anymore. You know as well as I do that I myself would choose to scrim you guys readily as ever back then, but my members got bored of it faster than I did.
Dracone says:
If we go and win one scrim, there will be losses and ties afterwards. Clans are too smart now to fall for the same strategies repeatedly.
Dracone says:
Well, the clans with bigger names at least. >.>
j-cool says:
im pretty sure if you guys were to beat us everytime you would want to scrim us
Dracone says:
If we could beat you every time? Of course we would. But we've always been at a level where it's a "Who knows?" kind of deal whenever we scrim, and we don't like that because it likely means a bunch of wasted time.
Dracone says:
If both of our clans mess around against eachother in scrims, I don't think I'd want to stop scrimming you guys.
Dracone says:
I laugh my ass off so hard in those scrims.
Dracone says:
If we had a scrim where AA made their base mid and NT made their base hall and aliens had basis and maras and humans used flamers...
Dracone says:
But it doesn't seem like a thing that everyone will be like "SURRE!!!" about...
j-cool says:
thats your utopia
Dracone says:
Yeah. But it's not exactly ideal for others.
Dracone says:
I'm starting to think my ideal NT isn't reachable.
Dracone says:
But maybe it will be with time.
Dracone says:
I don't know.
j-cool says:
recruit more members
Dracone says:
Yeah, I want to. It's just that I do want potential in any members I get. I want members that can use SOMETHING well, whether it's basi or mara or whatever. Otherwise it's just death death and death.
j-cool says:
oh, who if you dont mind me asking =/
Dracone says:
Well, for one of the people that actually is ready, heap is a good player.
Dracone says:
Plays at PureTremulous
Dracone says:
For people who aren't ready, Elmo, Bagga, hmmmmm
Dracone says:
Our Trik members aren't half bad.
Dracone says:
For what they're in at least.
j-cool says:
look for more well knowen people then
Dracone says:
I do. I look at everyone I see doing well. Just that many people are already taken, obviously.
j-cool says:
like who?
IT GOES ON!