Nov 01 08:06:16 * jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress - Introduction (jpr) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071101 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME
Nov 01 08:06:25 <jpr> Welcome to the openSUSE GNOME Team meeting!
Nov 01 08:06:29 <federico1> jpr: SEND HOT PIX
Nov 01 08:06:31 <jpr> Today will be our monthly meeting the moves to 12:00 UTC to try and better accomodate Asia and Australia.
Nov 01 08:06:34 * AvengerMoJo (n=alex@61.14.130.203) has joined #opensuse-gnome
Nov 01 08:07:09 <jpr> I already see some people from those place: dliang, srag, AvengerMoJo, jony (I think cslcy ) :-)
Nov 01 08:07:12 <jpr> so welcome
Nov 01 08:07:26 <srag> thx jpr
Nov 01 08:07:28 <jpr> hopefully this is a time we can stick to once a month
Nov 01 08:07:28 <AvengerMoJo> ;)
Nov 01 08:07:45 <jpr> srag for those who don't know, is the evolution maintainer
Nov 01 08:07:53 <jpr> so prepare your questions for Q&A :-)
Nov 01 08:07:58 <AvengerMoJo> ;)
Nov 01 08:08:13 <srag> sure :)
Nov 01 08:08:13 <jpr> lets move to the next agenda item
Nov 01 08:08:15 * jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress - Bug plan status (federico and rodrigo) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071101 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME
Nov 01 08:08:21 <jpr> federico1: take it away on the bug plan
Nov 01 08:08:26 <federico1> sure
Nov 01 08:09:01 <federico1> so, the bug plan on http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Bugs is practically done
Nov 01 08:10:06 <federico1> we have some criteria to classify bugs based on whether they prevent you from getting work done, and some categories which we can use to tag bugs as appropriate
Nov 01 08:10:25 <federico1> then, that page has links to bugzilla queries which we can use to find bugs based on those categories
Nov 01 08:10:45 <federico1> the next task is to finish going through the bug list, tagging each bug as appropriate
Nov 01 08:11:01 <federico1> something for boring afternoons :)
Nov 01 08:11:29 <AvengerMoJo> ;)
Nov 01 08:11:49 <federico1> we plan on having "bug topic days", where we try to fix bugs around the same topic: all the multiscreen bugs, all the bugs around editing photos from a camera, etc.
Nov 01 08:12:21 <federico1> but so far only mboman has signed up for the multiscreen bugs... does anyone else use Xinerama?
Nov 01 08:12:48 <jpr> i will have a dual screen setup in a couple of weeks
Nov 01 08:13:02 <jpr> maybe sooner
Nov 01 08:13:07 <jpr> so i will volunteer
Nov 01 08:13:11 <federico1> jpr: cool
Nov 01 08:13:40 * btimothy uses dual screen but by no means do i know how it works...magic? ;)
Nov 01 08:14:02 <jpr> federico1: anything else you would like to mention about the bug plan?
Nov 01 08:14:08 <jpr> (i have a few questions after)
Nov 01 08:14:11 <federico1> oh, one more thing
Nov 01 08:14:51 <Riggwelter> Sorry guys, I have to rush out, hope maw's able to take our item when it gets to it.
Nov 01 08:15:14 <federico1> we have a special category for accessibility bugs. So if you find a bug in gnome's accessibility software (there are tons of them!), or an application with accessibility problems, *please* file a bug and tag it with "gnome-accessibility" in the Status Whiteboard
Nov 01 08:15:36 <jpr> ok
Nov 01 08:15:40 <jpr> questions on the bug plan?
Nov 01 08:15:43 <hpj> so it can be assigned to me
Nov 01 08:15:55 <federico1> accessibility can be as simple as "this stupid app changes its menu's font size along with the rest of the system, but its toolbars remain with tiny text"
Nov 01 08:15:56 * mw|out is now known as mw-
Nov 01 08:15:59 <mw-> morning
Nov 01 08:16:09 <federico1> hpj: :)
Nov 01 08:16:43 <jpr> federico1: why is showstopper 3rd in priority
Nov 01 08:16:46 <jpr> ?
Nov 01 08:17:36 <jpr> or is that just the query order
Nov 01 08:17:45 <federico1> jpr: huh?
Nov 01 08:17:46 <jpr> under " Bugs in openSUSE 10.3"
Nov 01 08:17:58 <jpr> federico1: maybe those should be listed in priority order?
Nov 01 08:18:06 <federico1> oh, yeah, that's wrong
Nov 01 08:18:21 <federico1> the "fixing bugs" section has them in the right order :)
Nov 01 08:18:22 <jpr> federico1: and for priority, does severity play into it at all?
Nov 01 08:18:23 * federico1 fixes
Nov 01 08:18:35 <jpr> like can a critical function does not work
Nov 01 08:18:43 <jpr> rather
Nov 01 08:18:43 <federico1> jpr: yeah, within each category I'd like to fix things in order of severity
Nov 01 08:18:48 <jpr> ok
Nov 01 08:18:57 <jpr> but each category completely
Nov 01 08:19:01 <jpr> before the next?
Nov 01 08:19:11 <jpr> so all showstoppers
Nov 01 08:19:15 <federico1> or something like that... a Critical bug in wrong-out-of-the-box is probablymore important than a Minor in gnome-function-does-not-work
Nov 01 08:19:18 <jpr> then all wrong out of the box
Nov 01 08:19:28 <jpr> ok
Nov 01 08:19:54 <jpr> federico1: and how does voting influence things?
Nov 01 08:20:01 <federico1> oh yes, voting!
Nov 01 08:20:06 <federico1> so
Nov 01 08:21:13 * mw- is now known as mw
Nov 01 08:21:20 <federico1> we want to use the voting feature in bugzilla to help find bugs which people care about. Something may be super-annoying to some people; we want to find those bugs by having them vote for them.
Nov 01 08:21:58 * btimothy wishes the voting UI in bugzilla was more visible
Nov 01 08:22:07 <hpj> voting for bugs is fun!
Nov 01 08:22:15 <dliang> hehe
Nov 01 08:22:30 <federico1> for example, there are 13 votes for a way to disable beagle during installation...
Nov 01 08:23:08 <hpj> which makes you wonder if beagle shouldn't be disabled by default, perhaps
Nov 01 08:23:48 <captain_magnus> Beagle is good for some of us
Nov 01 08:23:59 <hpj> yeah, digression
Nov 01 08:24:02 <mw> beagle makes emotions run high :)
Nov 01 08:24:07 <jpr> federico1: so how do the votes overlap with the other priorities
Nov 01 08:24:21 <captain_magnus> Just because some people votes against it, doesnt mean that everyone wants it disabled...
Nov 01 08:24:25 <jpr> federico1: are they their own category, do they influence prioritization?
Nov 01 08:25:19 <captain_magnus> hpj: As long as we dont vote for "for and against" we can not make those decicions...
Nov 01 08:25:29 <federico1> jpr: I'd like them to influence prioritization
Nov 01 08:25:33 <jpr> ok
Nov 01 08:25:43 <jpr> maybe we should indicate that on the page?
Nov 01 08:26:03 <federico1> jpr: there's a highly-voted bug for opensuse 10.2 where something doesn't work on audacity... I would never have thought so many people did audio editing (podcasters?)
Nov 01 08:26:06 <hpj> captain_magnus: it was just an idle speculation, i shouldn't have said it
Nov 01 08:26:14 <federico1> jpr: yeah, let me put that in
Nov 01 08:26:37 <captain_magnus> hpj: Heh... Didnt mean to shut you up... Just saying... No offence... :-)
Nov 01 08:26:52 <jpr> ok
Nov 01 08:26:58 <jpr> any other bug plan questions?
Nov 01 08:27:12 <hpj> captain_magnus: some bugs are better fixed not in the way the submitter suggests (though maybe not that one)
Nov 01 08:27:28 <jpr> federico1: i have one - how does prioritization of 10.2/10.3/11.0 and features work?
Nov 01 08:27:30 <hpj> captain_magnus: which was my point, mostly
Nov 01 08:27:59 * Panzerboy (n=gigi@unaffiliated/panzerboy) has joined #opensuse-gnome
Nov 01 08:28:07 <captain_magnus> hpj: I agree with you...
Nov 01 08:28:32 * captain_magnus laughs as jpr puts federico1 in the hot seat...
Nov 01 08:28:57 <Panzerboy> hi all
Nov 01 08:29:09 <jpr> hi Panzerboy
Nov 01 08:29:09 <federico1> jpr: that's not completely clear from the page... I think we should fix 10.3 bugs first, then find a way to push those fixes to 11.0 so we don't forget, then go with 10.2 bugs
Nov 01 08:29:18 <captain_magnus> Hey Panzerboy... Meeting in progress...
Nov 01 08:29:26 <jpr> federico1: and over time focus more on 11.0 ?
Nov 01 08:30:16 <federico1> jpr: yeah, when betas start becoming available
Nov 01 08:30:30 <captain_magnus> Betas or Alphas?
Nov 01 08:30:46 <jpr> federico1: i think it needs to be well before that
Nov 01 08:30:54 <captain_magnus> Once we are in Betas, it is almost to late...?
Nov 01 08:30:55 <jpr> waiting to betas is what causes all the problems
Nov 01 08:31:03 <jpr> and allows us to get very little upstream
Nov 01 08:31:11 <federico1> are alphas publically accessible_
Nov 01 08:31:12 <federico1> ?
Nov 01 08:31:15 <jpr> yes
Nov 01 08:31:17 <federico1> ok
Nov 01 08:31:23 <jpr> and in factory factory is available right now :-)
Nov 01 08:32:11 <jpr> Ok, I think this is a great bug plan, we just need to be careful about balancing votes vs priorities, cleaning up whole groups of bugs and 11.0/10.3/10.2
Nov 01 08:32:14 <jpr> When should we move to using it? Right now we are working off severity only for 10.3
Nov 01 08:32:27 <jpr> and that was planned to continue until Nov 9
Nov 01 08:32:44 <jpr> should we finish that off and then move to the bug plan?
Nov 01 08:32:55 <federico1> jpr: I really want to finish tagging the bugs for 10.3; that along with severities should give us a good idea of the order in which to fix things
Nov 01 08:33:02 <jpr> along with some new feature/integration work?
Nov 01 08:33:14 <captain_magnus> jpr: federico1Ö Question for you...
Nov 01 08:33:25 <captain_magnus> Why do we not introduce a new version
Nov 01 08:33:55 <captain_magnus> or fix an issue in products that are (apparently) making some stuff unusable
Nov 01 08:34:17 <captain_magnus> Is that all up to the PM for 10.3, or do you have any say?
Nov 01 08:34:21 <jpr> captain_magnus: that is a distro wide policy, you will have to take it up with coolo and the board
Nov 01 08:34:31 <jpr> we have a little influence
Nov 01 08:34:43 <captain_magnus> jpr: Would you agree that it is sometime a problem?
Nov 01 08:34:46 <jpr> but not that much :-)
Nov 01 08:34:51 <jpr> yes, sometimes it is
Nov 01 08:35:00 * Panzerboy has quit ("leaving")
Nov 01 08:35:01 * btimothy doesn't favor the policy
Nov 01 08:35:09 <jpr> and we do make exceptions occasionaly
Nov 01 08:35:12 <jpr> like firefox
Nov 01 08:35:23 <captain_magnus> Ok, great... So is anyone willing to work with me to change that policy somehow?
Nov 01 08:35:40 <captain_magnus> Especially when there is a huge problem or a big demand?
Nov 01 08:36:03 <federico1> captain_magnus: that's something the bug plan is supposed to handle already...
Nov 01 08:36:04 <cyberorg> captain_magnus, there is a danger that every maintainer would want the latest versions of their packages pushed
Nov 01 08:36:06 <jpr> captain_magnus: alberto is i think
Nov 01 08:36:28 <federico1> captain_magnus: oh, you mean actually publishing a newer version of a program for an old version of opensuse?
Nov 01 08:36:30 <btimothy> captain_magnus: yeah, how do you draw the line and say enough is enough?
Nov 01 08:36:35 <captain_magnus> jpr: I am thining of him when I ask this! :-)
Nov 01 08:36:46 * Panzerboy (n=gigi@unaffiliated/panzerboy) has joined #opensuse-gnome
Nov 01 08:36:52 <cyberorg> i would like to see current compiz git pushed in updates as it fixes many bugs :)
Nov 01 08:36:54 <captain_magnus> I dont know how you draw the line...
Nov 01 08:36:55 <jpr> what really needs to happen is a clearer policy
Nov 01 08:37:01 <jpr> on when it can and can't happen
Nov 01 08:37:09 <jpr> it can't turn into a free for all
Nov 01 08:37:14 <captain_magnus> I know that we have people in our community that needs a new version for whatever reason
Nov 01 08:37:27 <captain_magnus> or we need to push a new version to make a feature work
Nov 01 08:37:36 <btimothy> i'm guessing it will be better next time around since we're a bit more involved now
Nov 01 08:37:43 <btimothy> (early on)
Nov 01 08:37:45 <jpr> captain_magnus: if you take this up, I would suggest you push/propose a policy for when its acceptable
Nov 01 08:37:58 <jpr> also true what btimothy said
Nov 01 08:38:14 <jpr> some of the gnome stuff could have been fixed if we'd worked on it a couple months earlier
Nov 01 08:38:27 <captain_magnus> jpr: btimothy: Ok... I am happy with that... To bad albertop isnt here :-(
Nov 01 08:38:36 <jpr> ok
Nov 01 08:38:39 <jpr> lets close this out
Nov 01 08:38:43 <jpr> actions for federico
Nov 01 08:39:03 <jpr> AI finishing tagging bugs (and people who want to help him) Nov 9 ETA
Nov 01 08:39:15 <jpr> AI Add 11.0 categorizations
Nov 01 08:39:22 <jpr> anything else?
Nov 01 08:39:49 <jpr> ok
Nov 01 08:39:51 * jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress - Ancient distro bug squash (mtgordon) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071101 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME
Nov 01 08:40:03 <jpr> mark is not here today
Nov 01 08:40:10 <jpr> however
Nov 01 08:40:11 <jpr> http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/BugDays/20071102
Nov 01 08:40:22 <federico1> ok
Nov 01 08:40:30 <jpr> will have a lot more info for the ancient distro bug squash day tomorrow
Nov 01 08:40:38 <jpr> federico1: great job by you and rodrigo btw
Nov 01 08:40:38 <btimothy> would be good to send out a mail abt. that to the list
Nov 01 08:40:40 <captain_magnus> jpr: Isnt that a surprise... Was that announced and I missed it? (The bug day)
Nov 01 08:40:42 <jpr> yes
Nov 01 08:40:51 <jpr> i've been waiting for some more info on the page
Nov 01 08:40:57 <jpr> like how to get involved
Nov 01 08:41:04 <jpr> hopefully mark will put that up today
Nov 01 08:41:07 <btimothy> will mtgordon be here tomorrow?
Nov 01 08:41:11 <jpr> and we'll continue
Nov 01 08:41:20 <jpr> yes, he's supposed to be
Nov 01 08:41:23 <btimothy> k
Nov 01 08:41:26 <jpr> although he's been ill :-/
Nov 01 08:41:31 <btimothy> bummer
Nov 01 08:41:35 <jpr> so maybe one of us will have to pick it up
Nov 01 08:42:19 * jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress - Task Review (btimothy) | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071101 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME
Nov 01 08:42:23 * btimothy wakes up...breaks out the "get 'er done" whip...
Nov 01 08:42:30 <btimothy> alright ...
Nov 01 08:42:45 <btimothy> first of all, if you haven't taken the chance to look at the tasks page recently ...
Nov 01 08:42:57 <btimothy> i'd encourage you to do so right now and first off, look for your name
Nov 01 08:43:03 <btimothy> http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Tasks
Nov 01 08:43:06 <btimothy> :)
Nov 01 08:43:07 <captain_magnus> http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Tasks
Nov 01 08:43:54 <btimothy> and, if you find your name, please make sure that 1) there's an ETA of when we can all expect to see your good work done
Nov 01 08:44:00 <captain_magnus> btimothy: Your name is all over the place :-)
Nov 01 08:44:02 <btimothy> 2) update the status
Nov 01 08:44:05 * btimothy hides
Nov 01 08:44:19 <btimothy> i need to review the list just as much as anyone else
Nov 01 08:44:43 <btimothy> this is why i suggest for everyone to conciously review the page today
Nov 01 08:44:48 <hpj> btimothy: "The Code page" is the list of people/expert areas, right?
Nov 01 08:44:58 <btimothy> not entirely sure
Nov 01 08:45:12 <btimothy> hpj: can you offer insight to the first item?
Nov 01 08:45:18 <hpj> btimothy: the "Add yourself to the team page" task for me - I did that ages ago :)
Nov 01 08:45:42 <hpj> btimothy: so that can be closed
Nov 01 08:45:42 <btimothy> hpj: ah, cool. you can move it off the page or down to the bottom section :)
Nov 01 08:45:48 <hpj> btimothy: ok
Nov 01 08:45:52 * AlbertoP (n=AlbertoP@host37-75-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #opensuse-gnome
Nov 01 08:45:55 <captain_magnus> Ok, as a spokes person for myself, jpr and cyberorg... We are waiting for "God"... We can not do to much with the feature requests at the moment... :-(
Nov 01 08:45:58 <btimothy> riggwelter ... GNOME Community Repo INclusion Polkicy Page?
Nov 01 08:46:14 <btimothy> ah, guess he left, right? :(
Nov 01 08:46:24 <hpj> btimothy: if "the Code page" is what I think it is, it's a list of people and what kind of questions they can generally answer about development
Nov 01 08:46:34 <btimothy> hpj: ah, right!
Nov 01 08:46:37 <hpj> btimothy: like "hpj: did a bunch of GNOME a11y stuff"
Nov 01 08:46:52 <jpr> captain_magnus: i did see some test info go by internally, i think its close
Nov 01 08:46:55 <btimothy> hpj: how 'bout setting a deadline and starting the page off? then poke the appropriate people, send out an emailt/etc.
Nov 01 08:47:15 <jpr> hpj: actually its not, but that AI should go up there too
Nov 01 08:47:20 <hpj> btimothy: yeah, hopefully i can get to it start of next week
Nov 01 08:47:23 <btimothy> doh!
Nov 01 08:47:27 <jpr> hpj: its a where code-for-our-modules-should-go
Nov 01 08:47:30 <jpr> page
Nov 01 08:47:34 <jpr> but we need to do both
Nov 01 08:48:00 <hpj> jpr: there's also a " Determine where to keep openSUSE specific GNOME code" item
Nov 01 08:48:04 <btimothy> in any case, we shouldn't really have tasks listed on the page without an ETA
Nov 01 08:48:11 <hpj> jpr: so they're both part of the same task?
Nov 01 08:48:15 <jpr> oh
Nov 01 08:48:17 <jpr> maybe
Nov 01 08:48:24 <jpr> hpj: at any rate, need some clarification
Nov 01 08:48:30 <hpj> yeah
Nov 01 08:48:35 * jpr agrees with btimothy
Nov 01 08:48:40 <btimothy> just update the task descriptions
Nov 01 08:49:05 <btimothy> i think the Tasks page suffers from neglect (and i haven't helped that situation)
Nov 01 08:49:24 <btimothy> federico1: looks like as of today the Bug Plan is gonna be entirely done?
Nov 01 08:49:32 <btimothy> federico1: if not, can you update the ETA on that one?
Nov 01 08:50:03 <btimothy> sbrabec: how's merging 10.3 packages -> gnome:stable? on time?
Nov 01 08:50:36 <btimothy> jpr: update on feature request submissions? i don't see an ETA there either?
Nov 01 08:50:54 <federico1> btimothy: yeah, I'm editing it... just got a mid-air collision :)
Nov 01 08:51:02 <jpr> btimothy: it will add it
Nov 01 08:51:05 <dliang> I think voting is much more useful in feature requests than in bugzilla
Nov 01 08:51:06 <jpr> currently its blocked
Nov 01 08:51:25 <sbrabec> btimothy: jpr: Running simple script. Manually (because it often needs fixes), about once daily. Including pending submitted pacakges.
Nov 01 08:51:37 <jpr> sbrabec: are we ok on 10.2 now?
Nov 01 08:51:57 <sbrabec> jpr: 10.2 nearly yes. 10.1 no.
Nov 01 08:52:08 <hpj> dliang: which is actually an interesting argument for using bugzilla for feature tracking :)
Nov 01 08:52:21 <jpr> dliang: yes, but voting on bugs does help people show just how annoying the bug is :-)
Nov 01 08:52:21 <sbrabec> jpr: see https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=GNOME%3ASTABLE
Nov 01 08:52:47 <jpr> sbrabec: will you continue to maintain G:S?
Nov 01 08:52:59 <jpr> sbrabec: if so, will you push GNOME 2.20.1 there?
Nov 01 08:53:14 <jpr> since in STABLE we will move to gnome 2.21.x shortly?
Nov 01 08:53:28 <btimothy> jpr: sbrabec: can each of you (when the changes settle down on the page) update the status column in your tasks?
Nov 01 08:53:34 <jpr> yes
Nov 01 08:53:39 <btimothy> thanks
Nov 01 08:53:51 <btimothy> i poked the bug abt. getting email notification ... a few minutes ago
Nov 01 08:53:57 <jpr> sbrabec: also, this is really impressive
Nov 01 08:54:21 <btimothy> captain_magnus: glossary?
Nov 01 08:54:40 <sbrabec> btimothy: jpr: Yes, I will maintain G:S. Please, anybody: If you will start to move to 2.21, please let me know before it.
Nov 01 08:54:50 <jpr> mw: ^^
Nov 01 08:54:59 <jpr> sbrabec: thank you
Nov 01 08:55:01 <btimothy> captain_magnus: not started, no ETA, should the glossary task be up for grabs?
Nov 01 08:55:08 <captain_magnus> Oh shit... Nothing... :-( I will talk to rodrigo_out as soon as I can
Nov 01 08:55:24 <btimothy> captain_magnus: ...and update the tasks page with your plan ;)
Nov 01 08:55:28 <captain_magnus> I will
Nov 01 08:55:35 <btimothy> jpr: boxed openSUSE ... update ETA/status
Nov 01 08:55:37 <btimothy> captain_magnus: thanks
Nov 01 08:55:46 <sbrabec> jpr: When Factory will start to move to 2.21, I'll stop syncing. Feel free to ping me to sync particular package or package subset.
Nov 01 08:55:47 <dliang> hpj: Is there any way besides bugzilla that I can do the feature request and get noticed by the developer?
Nov 01 08:55:50 <btimothy> captain_magnus: meeting items still need to be there?
Nov 01 08:56:10 <jpr> sbrabec: ok
Nov 01 08:56:26 <captain_magnus> Dont know... We all need to decide if we are happy with the way the meetings are conducted...
Nov 01 08:56:28 <jpr> btimothy: yes, they will all be done in hte discussion right ofter this
Nov 01 08:56:37 <btimothy> captain_magnus: experimenting with the meetings thing is still kind of ongoing i guess?
Nov 01 08:56:55 <btimothy> captain_magnus: maybe change the ETA to ongoing?
Nov 01 08:57:03 <captain_magnus> Will do...
Nov 01 08:57:06 * gothica (n=pavel@87.251.157.6) has joined #opensuse-gnome
Nov 01 08:57:21 <btimothy> and perhaps we ought to organize the tasks page to split out the sections?
Nov 01 08:57:30 <btimothy> AI -> boyd -> organize the tasks page
Nov 01 08:57:42 <hpj> jpr: see dliang's question above
Nov 01 08:57:47 <btimothy> munkii not here?
Nov 01 08:58:04 <btimothy> mw: eta on kde team packaging policy?
Nov 01 08:58:16 <jpr> dliang: right now its a bit messy, we are trying to sort out as a project how to get that handled
Nov 01 08:58:17 <cyberorg> dliang, hopefully we will have something soon
Nov 01 08:58:19 * btimothy whips self to add ETAs
Nov 01 08:58:26 * mw has to think about that
Nov 01 08:58:32 <jpr> dliang: for now try fate internally or bugzilla.novell.com enhancement
Nov 01 08:59:10 <jpr> dliang: if its just an idea for gnome
Nov 01 08:59:19 <jpr> http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Ideas/11.0
Nov 01 08:59:19 <btimothy> rodrigo_out: ah, not here ... you've got a couple items near the bottom of the list that were done a few days ago? ;)
Nov 01 08:59:39 <btimothy> mw: you posted the sample package already...mark this task as done?
Nov 01 08:59:43 <jpr> dliang: that a place holder while we get things sorted out
Nov 01 08:59:49 <jpr> btimothy: holiday in spain
Nov 01 08:59:54 * captain_magnus thinks we need AlbertoP to be responsble for a task...
Nov 01 08:59:56 <sbrabec> jpr: I want to mention progress with my pkg-buildrequires:
Nov 01 09:00:05 <jpr> sbrabec: please do
Nov 01 09:00:05 <btimothy> holiday/schmoliday! ;)
Nov 01 09:00:08 * AlbertoP reads back ^^
Nov 01 09:00:21 <captain_magnus> AlbertoP: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Tasks
Nov 01 09:00:38 <mw> btimothy: no, not yet, 'cause i want to post a sample library package too
Nov 01 09:00:59 <sbrabec> pkg-buildrequires
Nov 01 09:00:59 <sbrabec> This package provides a way to automatically maintain RPM BuildRequires
Nov 01 09:00:59 <sbrabec> introduced by pkg-config dependencies.
Nov 01 09:00:59 <sbrabec> Because it is not possible to update BuildRequires from build log
Nov 01 09:00:59 <sbrabec> directly, it must be done in two passes:
Nov 01 09:01:00 <sbrabec> 1) Run configure and analyze results.
Nov 01 09:01:00 <btimothy> mw: ah, please update that info in the task
Nov 01 09:01:02 <sbrabec> Compare requirements results with requirements actually uses.
Nov 01 09:01:04 <sbrabec> Fail if it does not equal.
Nov 01 09:01:06 <sbrabec> 2) Update BuildRequires of spec file.
Nov 01 09:01:08 <mw> btimothy: i already did
Nov 01 09:01:08 <sbrabec> Run build again.
Nov 01 09:01:10 <sbrabec> Sources:
Nov 01 09:01:12 <sbrabec> http://pack.suse.cz/sbrabec/pkg-buildrequires/
Nov 01 09:01:14 <sbrabec> OBS:
Nov 01 09:01:16 <sbrabec> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?project=home%3Asbrabec&package=pkg-buildrequires
Nov 01 09:01:18 <sbrabec> RPMs (noarch):
Nov 01 09:01:20 <sbrabec> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/sbrabec/
Nov 01 09:01:21 <btimothy> mw: ah ha! during the meeting. ;)
Nov 01 09:01:40 <jpr> sbrabec: ok, i have some q's, but I'll save that for the developer section later :-)
Nov 01 09:01:40 <btimothy> mw: still no ETA?
Nov 01 09:01:48 <jpr> btimothy: ok, ready to finish up the whipping?
Nov 01 09:01:51 <btimothy> mw: i.e., when should we bug you abt. it again
Nov 01 09:01:53 <btimothy> yeah. done
Nov 01 09:01:57 <btimothy> AI -> boyd ...
Nov 01 09:02:00 * jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress - Q&A - Non Developer | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071101 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME
Nov 01 09:02:01 <mw> let's say before next mtg
Nov 01 09:02:03 <jpr> Q&A
Nov 01 09:02:09 <captain_magnus> btimothy: Good work!
Nov 01 09:02:10 <btimothy> send out mail after finished reorganizing tasks
Nov 01 09:02:11 <jpr> questions from anyone
Nov 01 09:02:13 <jpr> anyone at all
Nov 01 09:02:38 <captain_magnus> jpr: Q&A from the meeting page?
Nov 01 09:02:48 * jpr notes btimothy is a much better irc whipper than i am
Nov 01 09:02:56 <AlbertoP> captain_magnus: hmm you mean the "review the wishlist" ;-)
Nov 01 09:02:58 <btimothy> hah!
Nov 01 09:03:04 <jpr> Q: Can we please review/comment/approve/deny http://en.opensuse.org/Wishlist_Gnome in one of these meetings
Nov 01 09:03:18 <jpr> A: Yes, i scheduled it for today, but i think we may need to punt until next week
Nov 01 09:03:35 <captain_magnus> jpr: Can we make AlbertoP in charge of that one? :-)
Nov 01 09:03:48 <jpr> sure
Nov 01 09:03:49 <jpr> AlbertoP: ?
Nov 01 09:03:53 <AlbertoP> yup
Nov 01 09:03:59 <captain_magnus> Awesome...
Nov 01 09:04:11 <jpr> ok, other questions?
Nov 01 09:04:19 <AlbertoP> two :-)
Nov 01 09:04:21 <jpr> go
Nov 01 09:04:37 <AlbertoP> the first one is about our GNOME: repositories
Nov 01 09:05:06 <captain_magnus> Who attended this meeting today, that could not (due to time) otherwise?
Nov 01 09:05:21 <captain_magnus> Me :-)
Nov 01 09:05:22 <AlbertoP> for what I unserstand KDE has :BACKPORTS, which is somewhat similar to :STABLE, but they found it on the existing distribution
Nov 01 09:05:32 <AlbertoP> why don't we do something similar?
Nov 01 09:05:56 <mw> what's the difference between :BACKPORTS and STABLE?
Nov 01 09:06:06 <sbrabec> I also have a question on GNOME:STABLE for 10.1: Is it important enough to spend days by fixing it?
Nov 01 09:06:17 <jpr> AlbertoP: we build stable on 10.2 and 10.3 and 10.1 is in progress thanks to sbrabec
Nov 01 09:06:23 <captain_magnus> sbrabec: I vote NO
Nov 01 09:06:36 <mw> sbrabec: i'd say no
Nov 01 09:06:46 <jpr> although maybe we won't do 10.1 :-)
Nov 01 09:06:47 <AlbertoP> backport should be a set of new apps packaged on the released distribution, while stable is packaged on a newer set of libs/gnome stuff I think
Nov 01 09:06:53 <cyberorg> 10.1 is of interest to many due to being a same code base as sle
Nov 01 09:07:09 <jpr> AlbertoP: ah
Nov 01 09:07:27 <mw> maybe those could go in G:C?
Nov 01 09:07:39 <AlbertoP> jpr: well, this is a sort of intepretation, better we ask to some K guy before
Nov 01 09:07:44 <AlbertoP> benJIman: ?
Nov 01 09:07:57 <captain_magnus> Guys, If you like this time for the meeting, speak up, or we will have to scrap it...
Nov 01 09:08:28 <jpr> yes, its just apps
Nov 01 09:08:51 <jpr> AvengerMoJo, dliang, jony, srag would you be here with out this meeting time?
Nov 01 09:09:13 <AlbertoP> second question, is the patch policy jpr and me shortly discussed on ML: it would be a good thing to have essential only patches even if not security related (read evo with backup stuff, anjuta, ...) :-)
Nov 01 09:09:18 <jpr> AlbertoP: so i think the answer to your question is - we've never thought about it
Nov 01 09:09:26 <srag> jpr, We would love to, but it becomes difficult as the other timing is too late in the night
Nov 01 09:09:31 <jpr> AlbertoP: please propose on #opensuse-gnome if you want
Nov 01 09:09:38 <dliang> I like the time. I'm fine if you change it.
Nov 01 09:09:51 <jpr> srag: right, so this time change once a month would help you attend
Nov 01 09:09:54 <AlbertoP> jpr: ML?
Nov 01 09:09:56 <mw> what time is it in straya right now?
Nov 01 09:10:00 <jpr> AlbertoP: err, yes
Nov 01 09:10:03 <srag> jpr, yep
Nov 01 09:10:09 <captain_magnus> mw: Just after midnight
Nov 01 09:10:54 <jpr> AlbertoP: yes, discussed earlier, captain_magnus would like to work with you to proposal a formal policy on version updates for the project
Nov 01 09:10:58 <captain_magnus> I really enjoyd not having to sit up until 2-3 in the morning to participate...
Nov 01 09:11:03 <jpr> Any other questions?
Nov 01 09:11:14 <AlbertoP> jpr: ok, thanks
Nov 01 09:11:35 <captain_magnus> AlbertoP: Guess it is up to you and me to try to get a good policy in place :-)
Nov 01 09:11:45 * jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress - Meeting format discussion (jpr)| http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071101 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME
Nov 01 09:11:48 <jpr> ok
Nov 01 09:12:02 <AlbertoP> captain_magnus: I have very little hope, but we must try :-)
Nov 01 09:12:04 <jpr> so we've experimented with our meetings over the last 3 weeks
Nov 01 09:12:13 <jpr> and we have a few questions to answer
Nov 01 09:12:23 <jpr> 1) Does splitting up in dev/non-dev work
Nov 01 09:12:26 <captain_magnus> AlbertoP: Be positive... Read through what we said throughout the meeing
Nov 01 09:12:31 <jpr> 2) Do timings work
Nov 01 09:12:49 <jpr> 3) Do themes work? If so how often do we have them?
Nov 01 09:12:56 <AlbertoP> captain_magnus: I'm positive, the problem is not there ;-)
Nov 01 09:13:03 <jpr> 4) Is shifting the time once a month good
Nov 01 09:13:11 <captain_magnus> jpr: I think 1) Really good... 2) Really good... 3) Really good... 4) Really good..
Nov 01 09:13:16 <jpr> 5) Is adding urls to the action items good
Nov 01 09:13:23 <captain_magnus> So.. +1 +1 +1 +1 = 4
Nov 01 09:13:33 <jpr> 6) Agenda items in irc topic
Nov 01 09:13:38 <captain_magnus> Not sure about 5 since noone seems to ready the agenda
Nov 01 09:13:41 <jpr> 7) Task review
Nov 01 09:13:50 <FunkyPenguin> the time shift is definately a good idea
Nov 01 09:13:54 <jpr> lets start at the top :-)
Nov 01 09:13:57 <jpr> 1) ?
Nov 01 09:14:02 <jpr> what do people think?
Nov 01 09:14:05 <hpj> jpr: I think 1) should be answered by non-devs
Nov 01 09:14:06 <captain_magnus> I loved btimothys work on 7!
Nov 01 09:14:15 <captain_magnus> +1
Nov 01 09:14:19 <FunkyPenguin> 1) works for me
Nov 01 09:14:35 <btimothy> yeah, i like the non-dev/dev separation for the mtg.
Nov 01 09:14:40 <btimothy> +1
Nov 01 09:14:41 <jpr> AlbertoP, captain_magnus ?
Nov 01 09:14:47 <jpr> others?
Nov 01 09:15:14 <FunkyPenguin> jpr: what do you think?
Nov 01 09:15:16 <captain_magnus> 1) +1
Nov 01 09:15:30 <AlbertoP> I agree with captain_magnus
Nov 01 09:15:34 <jpr> ok
Nov 01 09:15:39 <jpr> lets keep it
Nov 01 09:15:41 <jpr> 2)
Nov 01 09:15:50 <jpr> i must say I'm guilty of not enforcing these
Nov 01 09:15:57 <hpj> definite +1 from me, although we need better enforcing
Nov 01 09:16:00 <jpr> because I'm loathe to cut off a good discussion
Nov 01 09:16:07 <jpr> the biggest side tracker
Nov 01 09:16:13 <jpr> has been the bug plan discussion
Nov 01 09:16:15 <AlbertoP> it seems ok for me
Nov 01 09:16:16 <mw> i think it's better to let good discussion go than to cut it off
Nov 01 09:16:22 <captain_magnus> Timings do not really work, but I am really happy that we dont stress to push on as they do in the openSUSE status meetings
Nov 01 09:16:22 <jpr> but that is really critical to our success
Nov 01 09:16:25 <dliang> 2) +1 for me.
Nov 01 09:16:29 <btimothy> i think it's good to have the time limits, but ... i tried to quickly go through _all_ of the tasks and ... it went for over double the allotted time?
Nov 01 09:16:31 * FunkyPenguin agrees with mw
Nov 01 09:16:56 <jpr> maybe we should keep them a relative guidelines?
Nov 01 09:17:08 <captain_magnus> jpr: If its critical, then I can not agree that we have a 1 hour meeting...
Nov 01 09:17:10 <jpr> and pressure on the moderator to keep the focus in the channel :-)
Nov 01 09:17:13 <captain_magnus> We never managed to keep it
Nov 01 09:17:21 * metavoid has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Nov 01 09:17:28 <captain_magnus> And by the looks of it, we will only stress it if we do
Nov 01 09:17:36 <captain_magnus> How about 1 1/2 instead
Nov 01 09:17:42 <hpj> as long as people don't start dropping out of the meeting towards the end
Nov 01 09:17:53 <jpr> i'd still like to try an hour
Nov 01 09:17:56 <btimothy> i think if anything, the times help us to flesh out an agenda
Nov 01 09:18:08 <btimothy> keeping the meeting at an hour target is good ...
Nov 01 09:18:12 <jpr> it definitely narrows the agenda week to week
Nov 01 09:18:23 <jpr> i propose this then:
Nov 01 09:18:29 <jpr> a) keep the timings
Nov 01 09:18:32 <btimothy> i think we will get better each time (hopefully)?
Nov 01 09:18:34 <jpr> b) be lax on enforcement
Nov 01 09:18:53 <jpr> yay/nay?
Nov 01 09:19:01 <btimothy> +1
Nov 01 09:19:15 <btimothy> if it gets extremely out of hand, we can always readjust later
Nov 01 09:19:23 <jpr> any objections?
Nov 01 09:19:25 <captain_magnus> jpr: *try* to go for 1 hour? If so, +1... But dont enforce it
Nov 01 09:19:27 <mw> sounds good
Nov 01 09:19:30 <FunkyPenguin> snaye from
Nov 01 09:19:32 <jpr> captain_magnus: yes
Nov 01 09:19:42 <jpr> FunkyPenguin: ?
Nov 01 09:19:45 <FunkyPenguin> um that should be an aye from here
Nov 01 09:19:48 <jpr> ok :-)
Nov 01 09:19:51 <hpj> yeah, let's try for an hour
Nov 01 09:19:58 <jpr> 3) themes and how often?
Nov 01 09:20:03 <jpr> i personally liked the theme
Nov 01 09:20:05 <hpj> and let people internalize the enforcement
Nov 01 09:20:14 <jpr> especially getting other people outside gnome involved
Nov 01 09:20:25 <jpr> i could see having an evo theme Dec 6 for instance
Nov 01 09:20:25 <FunkyPenguin> definately
Nov 01 09:20:27 <jpr> with srag
Nov 01 09:20:32 * btimothy likes themes when appropriate, but doesn't have to be every meeting
Nov 01 09:20:42 <FunkyPenguin> once a month would be good
Nov 01 09:20:49 <hpj> i liked the theme
Nov 01 09:20:50 <dliang> 1 hour is a little short for me, I need to warm up before the meeting..
Nov 01 09:20:51 <captain_magnus> I think themes shoud only be once a month...
Nov 01 09:20:59 <captain_magnus> Reason is that we want experts to join us
Nov 01 09:21:02 <srag> jpr, sure.
Nov 01 09:21:09 <jpr> dliang: hehe
Nov 01 09:21:13 <captain_magnus> If we have it more often, then it could be hard to get those experts
Nov 01 09:21:35 <jpr> ok
Nov 01 09:21:39 <jpr> sounds lie yes
Nov 01 09:21:42 <jpr> and once a month
Nov 01 09:21:48 <jpr> 4) time shift once monthly
Nov 01 09:22:02 <jpr> (thank you to hpj, federico1 and btimothy who got up *really* early)
Nov 01 09:22:11 <btimothy> 5a might be pushing it when that time comes, btw
Nov 01 09:22:15 <btimothy> ;)
Nov 01 09:22:23 * AvengerMoJo has quit (Connection timed out)
Nov 01 09:22:26 <mw> the times are always convenient to people in europe
Nov 01 09:22:30 <srag> :)
Nov 01 09:22:31 <captain_magnus> +1 for time shifting
Nov 01 09:22:37 <federico1> np
Nov 01 09:22:39 <dliang> 4) +1
Nov 01 09:22:47 <mw> down with the eurocentricism!! ;)
Nov 01 09:22:57 <hpj> damn europe for being in the center
Nov 01 09:23:21 <jpr> i think we got hurt a little by india being on holiday
Nov 01 09:23:34 <jpr> but we should do this at least a couple more times
Nov 01 09:23:42 <jpr> any opposed?
Nov 01 09:23:44 * AlbertoP feels in the centre of the centre ^^
Nov 01 09:23:56 <btimothy> jpr: can i answer you this afternoon? ;)
Nov 01 09:24:04 <srag> :)
Nov 01 09:24:09 <jpr> btimothy: hehe
Nov 01 09:24:12 * btimothy should be good for another couple tries
Nov 01 09:24:16 <jpr> 5) Urls
Nov 01 09:24:28 <jpr> +1 from me
Nov 01 09:24:41 <captain_magnus> +1
Nov 01 09:24:48 <jpr> seems like a no-brainer
Nov 01 09:24:54 <btimothy> yup. next.
Nov 01 09:25:01 <jpr> 6) Agenda in #topic
Nov 01 09:25:08 <jpr> seems like another no brainer
Nov 01 09:25:10 <mw> +1, obvious :)
Nov 01 09:25:10 <hpj> +1 on 6)
Nov 01 09:25:16 <jpr> i think btimothy had that brainstrom
Nov 01 09:25:17 <captain_magnus> +1
Nov 01 09:25:21 <jpr> so good job
Nov 01 09:25:26 <btimothy> heh, i was watching another irc meeeting the other day ...
Nov 01 09:25:29 <btimothy> and they didn't have that ...
Nov 01 09:25:29 <jpr> 7) Task review in the meeting
Nov 01 09:25:32 <btimothy> how confusing ;)
Nov 01 09:25:41 <captain_magnus> AlbertoP: I dont see any -1... Whats going on? :-)
Nov 01 09:25:48 <captain_magnus> 7) +1
Nov 01 09:26:00 <hpj> 7) +1
Nov 01 09:26:07 <AlbertoP> captain_magnus: I'm positive :-)
Nov 01 09:26:27 <captain_magnus> AlbertoP: Not positive enough to say +1? :-)
Nov 01 09:26:33 <jpr> +1 with the caveat that btimothy should a) take this over b) prod people the day before the meeting to update
Nov 01 09:26:42 <btimothy> uh oh
Nov 01 09:26:46 <btimothy> ;)
Nov 01 09:26:50 <btimothy> i should have stayed in bed ;)
Nov 01 09:26:55 <jpr> spread the love
Nov 01 09:26:55 <AlbertoP> captain_magnus: if you don't see -, don't worry about my vote :-P
Nov 01 09:27:07 <btimothy> i think we can definitely cut down the time it takes with a little planning ahead of time
Nov 01 09:27:11 <btimothy> and reorganizing the page a bit
Nov 01 09:27:14 <btimothy> so +1
Nov 01 09:27:25 <jpr> AI Magnus to write up these decisions on http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings
Nov 01 09:27:38 <jpr> to flesh out our meeting policy a little more
Nov 01 09:27:41 <jpr> go captain meeting
Nov 01 09:28:03 <jpr> with that I move that since we really don't have the right people for the next to items
Nov 01 09:28:10 <jpr> we have final Q&A and wrap up
Nov 01 09:28:16 <jpr> (and its been an extra long meeting)
Nov 01 09:28:24 <jpr> (those up so early are typing slowly)
Nov 01 09:28:57 <federico1> btw, I just noticed that the main GNOME page didn't have an updated meeting time
Nov 01 09:29:16 <jpr> oops
Nov 01 09:29:25 <jpr> my bad
Nov 01 09:29:38 * jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress - Q&A | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071101 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME
Nov 01 09:29:44 <jpr> any other questions/comments/concerns?
Nov 01 09:30:00 * jony has quit (Connection timed out)
Nov 01 09:30:30 <jpr> ok, thanks everyone!
Nov 01 09:30:31 <AlbertoP> just one clarification on my tast with wishlist: what should I do?
Nov 01 09:30:32 <AlbertoP> :)
Nov 01 09:30:37 <jpr> this meeting is over!
Nov 01 09:30:44 * jpr has changed the topic to: Meeting over archives up soon | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20071101 | http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME