[00:52] <chibi_wolf> valhalla is my idea of heaven
[00:53] <mykalwane> ditto man
[00:53] <Zeukran> Yea, Thor and Jörmungandr will kill eachother during ragnarok
[00:53] <rave|away> sounds kinda gay
[00:53] <rave|away> lot of guys hanging around? fightin? wheres the peace?
[00:53] <rave|away> wheres the POINT?
[00:53] <chibi_wolf> peace?
[00:53] <chibi_wolf> there is none
[00:53] <Zeukran> Rape the village plunder the women
[00:53] <rave|away> thats your idea of heaven?
[00:53] <Destrucci> at night when they drink :)
[00:53] <Zeukran> wait...
[00:53] <chibi_wolf> peace is boring
[00:53] <rave|away> youre a connisseur of it of course
[00:54] <mykalwane> yea which is why the cold war was the most boring war yet
[00:54] <chibi_wolf> practicing and honing ones skills against the best warriors of time
[00:54] <rave|away> not true
[00:54] <rave|away> vietnam happened, as did cuba
[00:54] <chibi_wolf> awesome
[00:54] <mykalwane> not part of cold war rave
[00:54] <rave|away> uh
[00:54] <rave|away> yes
[00:54] <chibi_wolf> cuba part of cold war
[00:54] <rave|away> yes it was mykalwane
[00:54] <chibi_wolf> cuba very boring
[00:54] <rave|away> both were during the cold war
[00:54] * rave|away history major
[00:54] <rave|away> :)
[00:55] <chibi_wolf> vietnam didnt directly relate to cold war
[00:55] * Zeukran is going to be a history major
[00:55] <rave|away> it happened during the cold war
[00:55] <Zeukran> >.>
[00:55] <chibi_wolf> but was not part of the cold war
[00:55] <Zeukran> <.<
[00:55] <rave|away> and both fouigth against each other
[00:55] <rave|away> russians and western allies
[00:55] <rave|away> just not openly
[00:55] <chibi_wolf> not at first
[00:55] <rave|away> the USSR backed up the vietcong
[00:55] <rave|away> and even sent some troops
[00:55] <rave|away> just like with Korea
[00:55] <mykalwane> ok wasn't the cold war and the vietcong much like how the war on terrision and the war on iraq are different but similar
[00:55] <chibi_wolf> because we didnt back the vietcong
[00:56] <rave|away> no, the USSR did
[00:56] <chibi_wolf> instead we chose to back the french
[00:56] <chibi_wolf> the vietcong asked for our help
[00:56] <chibi_wolf> they were our allies in ww2
[00:56] <chibi_wolf> we chose the french over the viet
[00:56] <rave|away> right
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[00:56] <chibi_wolf> so they turned to who would help them
[00:56] <chibi_wolf> and that war china
[00:56] <chibi_wolf> was china
[00:56] <rave|away> and then it became USA V cietcong and elements of USSR
[00:56] <rave|away> and china
[00:57] <rave|away> east v west right there
[00:57] <chibi_wolf> but it wasnt part of the cold war
[00:57] <mykalwane> see this is why i won't major in history confuses the hell out of me
[00:57] <rave|away> why wasnt it, batou
[00:57] <rave|away> enlighten me
[00:57] <chibi_wolf> it was never about the communists
[00:57] <rave|away> it was
[00:57] <rave|away> Domino Theory
[00:58] <chibi_wolf> the communist become involved and they became a convienient scape goat of an excuse for us to keep fighting
[00:58] <rave|away> Johnson and USA feared communism spreading from vietnam to cambodia and laos and the rest of the east
[00:58] <rave|away> thats why they got invovled in the first place
[00:58] <chibi_wolf> vietnam was about vietnam wanting freedom from france
[00:58] <rave|away> thats how it started
[00:58] <rave|away> but it *became* about ideology
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[00:58] <rave|away> USA trying to prevent the communists from taking control of all of vietnam and spreading
[00:58] <Zeukran> wb OVerkill
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[00:58] <chibi_wolf> and thier only way of gaining that freedom was by aligning themselves with a major power
[00:58] <rave|away> it didnt even when they lost though
[00:59] <chibi_wolf> the only major power that would back them was the commies
[00:59] <chibi_wolf> they didnt want to become communist
[00:59] <chibi_wolf> but it was to them a better choice than what they had at the time
[01:00] <rave|away> youre clearly versed in what started the war
[01:00] <rave|away> just not in the thing as a whole
[01:00] <chibi_wolf> the people of vietnam never cared on wit about communism
[01:00] <rave|away> the vietcong did when they started getting backing from China
[01:01] <rave|away> and when the USA started dropping napalm it became a tad more popular
[01:01] <rave|away> the rebels got more sympathy
[01:01] <chibi_wolf> no they only cared that they were being backed by someone
[01:01] <rave|away> explain
[01:01] <chibi_wolf> it may have taken hold in the country
[01:01] <chibi_wolf> but at the time
[01:01] <chibi_wolf> it was merely a tool that they could wield
[01:01] <rave|away> yes
[01:02] <rave|away> hence it becamse western powers V communist rebels
[01:02] <rave|away> they labeleld themselves communist
[01:02] <rave|away> allied themselves with communists
[01:02] <rave|away> and pwned the USA
[01:02] <chibi_wolf> there was no communist revolt in vietnam like the other communist contries
[01:02] <rave|away> the vietcong drove back the USA and took over the whole country
[01:02] <rave|away> there was a revolution in that
[01:02] <chibi_wolf> yep
[01:02] <rave|away> or invasion
[01:02] <rave|away> it wasnt qwuite as ideological
[01:02] * mykalwane leaves in confusion
[01:02] <rave|away> but it happened
[01:02] <chibi_wolf> but not a revolution for communism, a revolution away from imperial rule
[01:03] <rave|away> the end result? vietnam became communist country
[01:03] <chibi_wolf> communism just happened to find a home there
[01:03] <chibi_wolf> but it was not part of the cold war
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[01:03] <chibi_wolf> if anything
[01:03] <rave|away> what dfo you mean, wasnt part?
[01:03] <chibi_wolf> it acted as a bit of a relief valve from the cold war
[01:04] <rave|away> it was one of the biggest parts OF the cold war
[01:04] <rave|away> it was one of the damned hot points of it, evem
[01:04] <chibi_wolf> the cold war was between the US and russia and its allies
[01:04] <rave|away> no
[01:04] <chibi_wolf> russia for the most part didnt want to be involve in vietnam
[01:04] <rave|away> it was between the USA and communism
[01:04] <rave|away> all forms
[01:04] <rave|away> wasnt based on country, on ideology
[01:04] <chibi_wolf> that is the retoric that they spewed to the country
[01:05] <rave|away> yes
[01:05] <rave|away> because that *was* the prime concern of the US government
[01:05] <chibi_wolf> russia never directly intervened in vietnam
[01:05] <rave|away> insofar as historians can gather
[01:05] <rave|away> not openly
[01:05] <rave|away> but they aided the troops and sent some of their own
[01:05] <chibi_wolf> because it was too much risk of it carrying over to europe
[01:06] <chibi_wolf> almost all support came from china who didnt care about what happened in europe
[01:06] <rave|away> no, but the USA cared about southern vietnam being takenover by communist forces
[01:06] <rave|away> i.e.
[01:06] <rave|away> the chinese-backed vietcong
[01:06] <rave|away> who were associating themselves with the communists
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[01:06] <rave|away> yes
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[01:06] <chibi_wolf> stupid connection
[01:07] <rave|away> [01:06] <chibi_wolf> almost all support came from china who didnt care about what happened in europe
[01:06] <rave|away> no, but the USA cared about southern vietnam being takenover by communist forces
[01:06] <rave|away> i.e.
[01:06] <rave|away> the chinese-backed vietcong
[01:06] <rave|away> who were associating themselves with the communists
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[01:06] <rave|away> yes
[01:07] <rave|away> just bringing ya back to speed
[01:07] <chibi_wolf> we only cared because france asked us to care
[01:07] <rave|away> the USA didnt give a crap about france
[01:08] <chibi_wolf> and after france left, we just couldnt admit we were wrong
[01:08] <rave|away> they cared about losing one asian country to communism
[01:08] <rave|away> and having it spread across all of asian
[01:08] <chibi_wolf> that was why we went in
[01:08] <rave|away> the official pretext (underline official) was france
[01:08] <rave|away> the french quickly came to not matter
[01:08] <rave|away> the USA gave them equipment and financial backing at first
[01:09] <rave|away> but when the french were getting driven out, the USA stepped in personally
[01:09] <rave|away> using the Gulf of Tonkin incident as another pretext to get congress' permission
[01:09] <Red_Alchemist|afk> too much to read
[01:09] =-= Red_Alchemist|afk is now known as Red_Alchemist
[01:09] <chibi_wolf> maybe, but neither side wanted a conflict of west vs communism
[01:09] <Red_Alchemist> o hell no
[01:09] <chibi_wolf> not since korea was still hot
[01:09] <chibi_wolf> and both sides had nukes
[01:10] <rave|away> so what? thats why the chinese were covert while the USA was open in being nvolved
[01:10] <rave|away> it was one of the biggest events of the cold war
[01:10] <rave|away> a major defeat for the USA by communism, in terms of propaganda at the very least
[01:11] <Red_Alchemist> Why is the US obsessed with being up in everybody's business?
[01:11] <Red_Alchemist> seriously, though
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[01:11] <chibi_wolf> because people are increadibly stupid
[01:11] <rave|away> was that the end?
[01:11] =-= Cheza-chan is now known as Cheza
[01:11] <rave|away> wb cheza
[01:11] <Red_Alchemist> batou why are you only a &
[01:12] <Zeukran> wb Chezqa
[01:12] <Zeukran> Cheza*
[01:12] <Cheza> not much
[01:12] <Cheza> hey
[01:12] <chibi_wolf> cause chigo is power hungry
[01:12] <chibi_wolf> ok i'm off to make dinner