[20:41] <Toph> so the thing a little while ago
[20:41] <Toph> with the 19 George Washington University students getting subpoena from the RIAA.
[20:41] <Toph> explain why that isnt going to happen to me
[20:41] <Toph> i am seriously worried especially since everyone i have talked to says "you will most likely be fine"
[20:41] <tgies> i dunno rofl
[20:41] <Toph> i really dont like the term "most likely" right now
[20:41] <tgies> look
[20:41] <tgies> okay
[20:41] <tgies> nobody can say for sure.
[20:42] <Toph> i guess
[20:42] <tgies> but I'd bet my goddamn
[20:42] <tgies> eyes
[20:42] <Toph> okay let's say they went after me
[20:42] <tgies> that's as close to "for certain" as anyone can give you
[20:42] <Toph> let's take that route - what would they do
[20:42] <tgies> they would kill you
[20:42] <Toph> they uh
[20:42] <Toph> might
[20:42] <Toph> since on the riaa website it says some shit about each song being $750?
[20:43] <Toph> that would basically kill me yes
[20:43] <Toph> i dont have uh that kind of money
[20:43] <tgies> that's an arbitrary figure lol
[20:43] <tgies> toph
[20:43] <tgies> they can't
[20:43] <tgies> prove
[20:43] <tgies> you did anything
[20:43] <Toph> why not
[20:43] <tgies> some shit in your profile about what you uploaded
[20:43] <tgies> (which they removed last week, mind you)
[20:43] <tgies> does not count as admissible evidence
[20:43] <tgies> they would have to have downloaded the entire file from you
[20:43] <tgies> to substantiate that you have it
[20:44] <tgies> this is why bittorrent shit like this does not ever go anywhere
[20:44] <Toph> who would have to have downloaded the entire file from me
[20:44] <Toph> the riaa etc?
[20:44] <Toph> but uh my ratio is on there and why isnt that enough to ruin me etc
[20:44] <tgies> whoever wanted to sue you
[20:44] <tgies> uh
[20:44] <tgies> because your "ratio"
[20:44] <Toph> okay i get it
[20:44] <tgies> says nothing about whose copyrights you violated or indeed if you violated any at all
[20:45] <tgies> and it might not even be real
[20:45] <Toph> so uh if shit starts going down and i just delete all my songs
[20:45] <Toph> they have 0 way to prove i did anything?
[20:45] <tgies> ya
[20:45] <tgies> they can't really make a good enough case to subpoena you in the first place
[20:45] <tgies> so even if they did decide to investigate you specifically
[20:45] <Toph> okay
[20:45] <tgies> it is 99% certain you'd never even HEAR about it
[20:45] <Toph> how did they get the george washington university faggots
[20:46] <tgies> I'm not sure I haven't read much about that
[20:46] <tgies> but I'll bet you none of them are found guilty!!!!!!!!!!!
[20:46] <tgies> ps they released the admin of oink a few hours ago
[20:46] <tgies> because they didn't have nothing
[20:46] <tgies> lol
[20:46] <Toph> i hear they do that often
[20:47] <tgies> also that whole placeholder page they put up?
[20:47] <Toph> to criminals after they book them
[20:47] <Toph> whut
[20:47] <tgies> with corporate logos and everything?
[20:47] <Toph> yes
[20:47] <Toph> ?
[20:47] <tgies> flagrant violation of procedure
[20:47] <Toph> yeah, it presumes guilt
[20:47] <tgies> this is a wreck right from the start
[20:47] <tgies> uh, yeah, and it belies corporate involvement in the investigation
[20:47] <Toph> right
[20:47] <tgies> and is a violation of the oink guy's rights to his property
[20:47] <tgies> and counts as evidence tampering
[20:47] <tgies> and etc.
[20:48] <Toph> yes but does anybody in power give a shit? or
[20:48] <tgies> they probably KNOW this, and know it's not going to go anywhere
[20:48] <tgies> so they gave up on pursuing it legally
[20:48] <tgies> and decided to just scare people
[20:48] <tgies> illegally
[20:48] <tgies> lol
[20:48] <Toph> so uh
[20:48] <Toph> if they actually tried targeting users
[20:48] <Toph> users would just retort with evidence tampering etc?
[20:48] <tgies> .
[20:48] <tgies> First off there are 180k+ users okay
[20:48] <Toph> yeah dude i realize it is unlikely
[20:49] <Toph> i am just stressed and i apologize that i am bothering you
[20:49] <tgies> They don't have the resources to even begin
[20:49] <Toph> haha
[20:49] <Toph> resources as in money?
[20:49] <tgies> and manpower
[20:49] <tgies> and etc.
[20:49] <Toph> i was under the impression they were a pretty filthy rich group
[20:49] <Toph> oh
[20:49] <Toph> well
[20:49] <tgies> no the legal fees involved
[20:49] <tgies> and the hours spent combing through users in a vain attempt to find any tenable evidence
[20:49] <tgies> would be fuckin'
[20:49] <Toph> i suppose so
[20:49] <tgies> you don't even know.
[20:50] <tgies> and yeah they've completely destroyed any credible evidence they could have had in the first place
[20:50] <tgies> plus this would require cooperation between the us and the uk and the netherlands to nail anybody
[20:50] <Toph> so let's say they just contact my school and tell the school that x ip address was doing Gay Shit
[20:50] <Toph> would my school care
[20:50] <tgies> which guess how often that happens[20:51] <tgies> it might
[20:51] <tgies> if they made a giant production of it
[20:51] <Toph> can they do that with any reasonable ease?
[20:51] <Toph> or would this also be completely not cost effective
[20:51] <tgies> if they were going to do that
[20:51] <tgies> they'd probably pick like
[20:51] <tgies> one specific school
[20:51] <tgies> and it would be
[20:51] <tgies> a Big one
[20:51] <tgies> like
[20:51] <tgies> Da Biggest
[20:51] <Toph> like UW
[20:51] <Toph> which is big
[20:51] <Toph> :(
[20:51] <tgies> eh
[20:52] <tgies> could be bigger.
[20:52] <tgies> plus
[20:52] <Toph> I don't know christ I am sure in a month I will have forgotten about this and be on usenet or some shit
[20:52] <Toph> plus?
[20:52] <tgies> george washington university
[20:52] <tgies> they went after those guys because they're next fucking door to RIAA offices.
[20:52] <tgies> convenience!
[20:52] <Toph> didn't know that
[20:53] <Toph> well, you should (if you care enough) use your riaa member status to ask someone in reasonable power if
[20:53] <tgies> ps
[20:53] <tgies> most schools
[20:53] <Toph> [20:48] <tgies> they probably KNOW this, and know it's not going to go anywhere
[20:53] <Toph> [20:48] <tgies> so they gave up on pursuing it legally
[20:53] <Toph> [20:48] <tgies> and decided to just scare people
[20:53] <Toph> [20:48] <tgies> illegally
[20:53] <Toph> is true
[20:53] <Toph> ?
[20:53] <tgies> put everyone behind one or two IP addresses
[20:53] <tgies> GWU doesn't and that also made it easy
[20:53] <Toph> how do I check if my school does?
[20:53] <tgies> if your dorm net is all NAT'd behind one IP then it is impossible for them to track down individuals
[20:54] <tgies> ummm
[20:54] <tgies> stand by
[20:54] <Toph> tell my roommate to go on whatismyip.com and have me do the same?
[20:54] <tgies> i'll see if i can find out from out here
[20:54] <Toph> would that be faster
[20:54] <tgies> try that yeah
[20:55] <tgies> (if they're different that doesn't mean EVERYONE has a unique IP, so that's not the last thing to check)
[20:55] <Toph> we have different IPs yeah
[20:55] <Toph> 128.208.118.4 vs 128.208.118.203 or something
[20:55] <tgies> okay let me see how consistently those are assigned
[20:56] <tgies> not very.
[20:56] <tgies> so
[20:56] <tgies> you might all have your own IPs
[20:56] <tgies> but
[20:56] <tgies> not permanently
[20:56] <Toph> oh
[20:56] <tgies> IPs are very dynamically assigned there so you usually only have one for a few days at a time
[20:56] <tgies> so
[20:56] <Toph> all right
[20:56] <tgies> they can't easily link an ip to a person
[20:57] <Toph> oh incidentally
[20:57] <Toph> [20:50] <tgies> plus this would require cooperation between the us and the uk and the netherlands to nail anybody
[20:57] <tgies> at GWU they were all registered to each computer
[20:57] <Toph> IFPI is an international umbrella group that the riaa belongs to...?
[20:57] <Toph> how would this be difficult?
[20:57] <tgies> it doesn't matter; it's a question of legal jurisdiction
[20:57] <tgies> the IFPI is just another private organization
[20:58] <tgies> they have no power to make stuff magically be tried in whatever country they want by virtue of their somewhat international presence
[20:58] <tgies> practically speaking
[20:58] <tgies> if
[20:58] <tgies> they wanted to nail you specifically
[20:59] <Toph> ya
[20:59] <Toph> oh
[20:59] <tgies> the laws on the books right now are very sketchy and make Internet Crimez of this nature
[20:59] <tgies> wherein the evidence is in another country
[20:59] <Toph> okay
[20:59] <tgies> VERY hard to prosecute
[20:59] <Toph> oh uh last thing.
[20:59] <Toph> so let's say absolute worst case in every way
[20:59] <Toph> am i facing civil or criminal charges
[21:00] <Toph> like jesus appears and grants the riaa magical omega flare potential
[21:00] <Toph> what then
[21:00] <tgies> civil
[21:00] <tgies> you would be ELIGIBLE to be criminally prosecuted if everything went JUST right
[21:00] <Toph> so when they say "criminal investigation"
[21:00] <Toph> they mean "lol except not?" or what?
[21:00] <tgies> lol except not
[21:00] <Toph> gotcha
[21:00] <tgies> they would have to:
[21:00] <Toph> WELL ANWYAY
[21:00] <Toph> oh
[21:00] <Toph> yeah?
[21:00] <tgies> prove
[21:01] <tgies> that you made them lose upwards of $20,000 of profit
[21:01] <Toph> oh okay
[21:01] <Toph> right which definitely isnt' the case
[21:01] <tgies> and to get any prosecutor to give a shit
[21:01] <Toph> btw - oink erased all its records of who upped/downed what a few days ago?
[21:01] <Toph> serious?
[21:01] <tgies> they would have to make you out to be some kind of supreme evil being of piracy
[21:01] <tgies> ya
[21:01] <tgies> if you had visited the site you would have in fact seen this
[21:01] <Toph> oh okay
[21:01] <tgies> i think he maybe suspected the shit was about to hit the fan
[21:02] <Toph> well i visited the site
[21:02] <Toph> like
[21:02] <Toph> today
[21:02] <Toph> and uh yeah
[21:02] <tgies> but uh yeah basically
[21:02] <tgies> if everything else went fucking perfectly
[21:02] <tgies> and they managed to make their destroyed evidence admissible (Can not happen)
[21:03] <tgies> you would be protected still by virtue of your boringness
[21:03] <tgies> no criminal prosecutor cares about you because you're small-time
[21:03] <tgies> RIAA's lawyers do not care about you because you're way over there and also small-time
[21:03] <tgies> so ya.