(21:48:40) Moderator : Sertic did a session a few weeks ago
(21:48:51) Moderator : he's the black box trader
(21:48:53) Max : ah... missed that
(21:49:07) Moderator : he did the q and a about a month back
(21:49:18) Max : I feel there may be more to this
(21:49:20) tryan : i remember the black box thing
(21:49:42) tryan : weird dude
(21:50:05) Randy : what is a black box trader
(21:50:15) Jumpman5 : good ? Randy
(21:50:28) Moderator : ok sertic's back and would like to do another q and a if you guys are interested
(21:50:46) ForexRules : is that artificial intelligence mod?
(21:50:46) Romulus : for sure
(21:50:54) Moderator : sertic created a black box trading system
(21:50:57) Jumpman5 : i'm game. like to know what its about
(21:51:04) tryan : uh
(21:51:08) Jumpman5 : Mod did you guys see a P&L
(21:51:28) madbomber1998 : hmmmm....I've been wondering more about this subject
(21:51:30) Moderator : you can ask Sertic all your questions
(21:51:35) Moderator : hang on folks
(21:51:38) Jumpman5 : k
(21:52:14) madbomber1998 : hmmm....getting my second trading computer up and running
(21:52:24) madbomber1998 : installing windows right now....dual 22" lcd's
(21:52:34) madbomber1998 : I need a bigger desk :-/
(21:52:41) Moderator : ok here's sertic everyone
(21:52:47) madbomber1998 : cool
(21:52:49) Moderator : be nice
(21:52:59) madbomber1998 : hi sertic
(21:53:00) Moderator : and ask as many ?'s as you like
(21:53:07) cubalibras : mod is this audio?
(21:53:11) Moderator : no typing
(21:53:12) Jumpman5 : Hi Sertic
(21:53:15) FreddyFX : welcome Sertic from Mexico
(21:53:18) cubalibras : ok m8
(21:53:21) ForexRules : hey sertic
(21:53:22) sertic : Hi
(21:53:31) cubalibras : hi sertic
(21:53:36) Jumpman5 : so tell us what a black box system is
(21:53:41) Rob : hey sertic
(21:53:43) madbomber1998 : I don't know anything about the subject really, can you give us a brief overview
(21:53:44) Extreme Pipage : hello sertic
(21:53:48) Moderator : ok folks, one question at a time please
(21:53:50) Moderator : thanks
(21:53:52) madbomber1998 : what jumpman5 said :-)
(21:54:20) sertic : I spent six yrs trading and losing until i took emotion out of my trading
(21:54:52) MrSirplus : the fear and greed type ?
(21:55:37) sertic : Blackbox allows the vehicle being traded to make you the money and not daytrading
(21:55:54) sertic : I was a bad day trader
(21:56:14) FreddyFX : so it is an EA?
(21:56:20) ForexRules : sertic, i've heard of blackbox trading before, is it artificial intelligence?
(21:57:07) sertic : now i let the blackbox model pick up momentum readings and execute the trade when enough momentum has been reached to warrant entry
(21:57:22) sertic : Yes it is artificial int.
(21:57:25) Jumpman5 : Is it a grid trading type system?
(21:57:27) Lasek88 : sertic, you trade for yourself or a corporation?
(21:57:30) ForexRules : neural networks
(21:57:55) sertic : I traded for a public company and now for myself
(21:58:05) cubalibras : does the black box predict intra day, swing or both?
(21:58:09) Jumpman5 : what type of ROI do you get using this type system
(21:58:11) sertic : no not neural networks
(21:58:22) Lasek88 : why not lose the public company, they suck
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(21:58:32) madbomber1998 : is it a standalone package, add-on for a trading platform, etc? does it trde FOR you, or just tell you when to trade?
(21:59:08) sertic : R.O.I - DEPENDS ON THE TRENDINESS OF THE VEHICLE FOR THE YR
(21:59:14) Lasek88 : im guessing you cant say what company you trade for?
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(21:59:57) sertic : I like executing the trades myself, it can do it 4 u
(22:00:04) sertic : correct
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(22:00:18) ForexRules : did you code the software?
(22:00:22) Jumpman5 : do you have a P&L, which you could show us.
(22:00:26) Lasek88 : sertic, your system trades multiple pairs?
(22:00:43) sertic : easy language coding
(22:01:39) sertic : I will have a p&l generated by asst.
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(22:01:59) schicky : what is happeningnwith the Eur/Usd
(22:02:08) Jumpman5 : Sertic do you sell this system or have a website we could look at?
(22:02:10) Rockmen : yes please advise
(22:02:19) sertic : i prefer to trade the eurusd exclusive
(22:02:28) fxr : schicky --> http://fxinsights.com/forums/showthread.php?t=564
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(22:02:35) fxr : cant get any clearer tan that
(22:03:02) sertic : yes
(22:03:17) Jumpman5 : is that a yes to selling and website??
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(22:04:27) sertic : i went back 15yrs on the eurusd and found it to be the most reliable pair to trade. next would be the usd/chf-audusd
(22:04:44) MrSirplus : Easy language would mean it is part of the Trede Station platform correct?
(22:04:51) sertic : gbp/usd to many whip saws
(22:05:02) sertic : mr- yes
(22:05:22) Jumpman5 : can y ou tell us what your website is?
(22:05:31) MikeFX : we're getting a pnl up in a minute
(22:05:36) Jumpman5 : cool
(22:05:38) sertic : This yr has been a great yr for blackbox trading of eur/usd
(22:06:06) pipster : sertic, it runs on tradestation? I have tradestation
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(22:06:32) sertic : The key is proper money mngt and taking all trades till trend hits
(22:06:40) sertic : yes tradestation
(22:06:57) pipster : what's the profit factor, could I see a performance report?
(22:07:12) Jumpman5 : I would like to know if you make more selling your system or from trading??
(22:07:23) MrSirplus : TradeStation on forex would go thru Gain as the introducing broker I believe. what is the current account minimum required to start working the system
(22:07:37) sertic : typically there will be 2-3 trades month, yet one trade can last months,if trend strong
(22:07:57) sertic : I dont offer system for sale
(22:08:12) pipster : oh. what are we talking about then?
(22:08:13) Jumpman5 : so you will offer it free to us to use??
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(22:08:40) sertic : I execute my signals, dont use gain to answer question
(22:09:36) pipster : you only need TS as broker if you auto traded it then
(22:09:53) sertic : correct
(22:10:08) madbomber1998 : so how can we get the system?
(22:10:12) MrSirplus : TS is run like eSignal then?
(22:10:14) Jumpman5 : how can we try it
(22:10:20) sertic : the system caught to mjr moves this yr
(22:10:33) sertic : yes like esignal
(22:11:17) mrf : Hey all, I'm curious about something. What is your asking price cost of carry on a 1:200 EUR/USD position? Mine is -4.20%.
(22:11:38) pipster : i'd be interested in trying it out, I'm all setup with TS
(22:11:56) sertic : I would need to talk w Mod about that possibility,the fxinsight guys are the best all around traders ive seen
(22:12:12) madbomber1998 : I'm willing to try ito ut
(22:12:23) madbomber1998 : I travel so much I can use a little automated help
(22:12:43) pipster : you'd have to open an account with TS mad
(22:12:44) sertic : I went thru tons of money figuring out what works well for forex trading
(22:12:54) madbomber1998 : that's fine if I had to
(22:13:16) MrSirplus : My personality tends to lean towards swing trading 1 to 2 week time frame. If the market only trends on average 20% of the time your method would entail a large amount of drawdowns. This could be hard on my style of trading
(22:13:25) sertic : recent p&l posted for end of sept.
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(22:13:59) pipster : sweet!
(22:14:26) madbomber1998 : not bad
(22:14:28) mrf : Hey all, I'm curious about something. What is your asking price cost of carry on a 1:200 EUR/USD position? Mine is -4.20%.
(22:14:32) sertic : Mr- I have not seen any mjr drawdown ,de to the fact it is momentum based-fewer whipsaws
(22:14:35) pipster : could you post a performance report sertic?
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(22:14:50) tryan : its posted
(22:14:55) tryan : on the right
(22:15:01) pipster : no, that's P&L
(22:15:08) pipster : TS Performance Report
(22:15:13) sertic : mrf- make question clearer,please
(22:15:16) MrSirplus : I see momentum triggers
(22:15:17) tryan : ooo gotcha
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(22:15:40) pipster : shows cool stuff like profit factor, DD, avg win, avg loss, etc.
(22:16:21) sertic : give me 10 min on that
(22:16:34) pipster : thx
(22:16:36) mrf : If you hold a long EUR/USD position with 1:200 leverage, what interest are you accruing? My platform gives me -4.20%, which sucks if I hold the position for a long time.
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(22:16:50) pipster : if you could do for 3 years, that would be great
(22:17:46) MrSirplus : Mrf, if you were short would that be different then? Don't mean to sound stupid I'm new to the MM side of things
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(22:19:03) mrf : Shorting is a little better, but I still am accruing -2.95%. I know some people are actually earning interest on such positions and I am end up changing brokers if that is the case.
(22:19:22) Moderator : most brokers pay interest to hold euro shorts
(22:19:30) Moderator : they charge interest on euro longs
(22:19:44) Moderator : some brokers charge for holding shorts and longs
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(22:19:58) Moderator : jump on a live chat with your broker to, mrf
(22:20:11) Moderator : they'll be able to explain to you how they specifically work
(22:20:12) gilley53 : ibfx pays for holding euro short.
(22:20:23) mrf : Mod, I get screwed either way. Have to pay whether short or long. Might need to change brokers. I just talked to them over there and that is the way it is. I pay whether long or short.
(22:20:36) pipster : wow
(22:20:38) Moderator : i know fxsol does not pay for euro shorts, which is criminal in my book
(22:20:38) MrSirplus : I'm trying to be a reformed system-aholic and the insight team is trying to teach me how to think things out instead of relying on indicators which are lagging
(22:20:46) gilley53 : mrf, who are you using?
(22:20:50) fxr : might need to change?
(22:20:54) mrf : fxsol
(22:21:01) Moderator : well there ya go
(22:21:26) mrf : yup, the platform is hugely reliable tho. never had a single problem with it. any recommendations from anybody?
(22:21:28) Moderator : ok sertic just pm and said he's still generating the TS report, whatever that is
(22:21:30) MrSirplus : It is tough to rely on a method which does not explain what it's doing inside
(22:21:37) gilley53 : I think fxcm also pays to hold euro short.
(22:21:46) fxr : most do
(22:22:17) Rob : mod, can you explain the blackbox idea, is it statistical analysis that looks for certain criteria that need to be met?
(22:22:18) gilley53 : Love the trade platforms on both fxcm and ibfx.
(22:22:25) pipster : TS performance report generates all kinds of interesting stats like drawdown, profit fact win/loss %, avg win, avg loss, etc
(22:22:59) Moderator : i know absolutely nothing about a blackbox system
(22:23:05) Moderator : when sertic gets back ask him
(22:23:40) Jumpman5 : know if he is offering this up for a us to try it out.
(22:23:50) Jumpman5 : don't see the point if he's not
(22:23:50) pipster : i think it's "blackbox" because it generates buy/sell signals, and the code is locked, so you can't see how it does it
(22:23:54) MrSirplus : No disrespect to sertic but the MOD. and Cisco will help me think on my own with confidence which will lead to no emotion :-)
(22:24:06) Jumpman5 : agreed
(22:24:06) Rob : Freddy, you still in here
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(22:24:30) FreddyFX : yes
(22:24:46) Rob : where do you live in Mexico
(22:24:58) FreddyFX : Puerto Vallarta
(22:25:03) pipster : i'm interested in looking at what sertic has, but I don't understand the purpose of the Q&A. Is he selling it, giving it, or what?
(22:25:12) FreddyFX : 20km north
(22:25:13) Moderator : thanks mrsirplus... well we dont use blackbox stuff, just fundamental and price action to trade
(22:25:18) ForexRules : freddy, do you lik eit?
(22:25:31) FreddyFX : SUPER
(22:25:34) Jumpman5 : I agree pipster... still unclear what the purpose is.
(22:25:36) Moderator : pipster, people asked for sertic to do another q and a, its all good...
(22:25:39) madbomber1998 : I think mostly just providing us with info
(22:25:53) madbomber1998 : always good to learn new things, even if you never use them
(22:25:57) ForexRules : when did you move there?
(22:26:10) pipster : ok, I don't have a problem with it, just a little confused on purpose
(22:26:10) madbomber1998 : at least you won't look stupidly at someone when they ask you about blackbox stuff
(22:26:14) FreddyFX : 4 yrs ago
(22:26:22) Rob : just curious, I have a friend that will be moving to Mexico city (Neza)
(22:26:37) FreddyFX : shit place
(22:26:43) ForexRules : do you ever come back to the states?
(22:27:08) FreddyFX : but I am not a city boy, I am a Caribbean island descendant, Curacao
(22:27:41) sertic : just posted ts report in shared files
(22:27:51) FreddyFX : Duthc, I refuse to live in a "communist" country, where lawyers are the boss LOL
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(22:28:53) ForexRules : just like here
(22:29:03) FreddyFX : PM me, this is not a chat FXI subject
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(22:29:47) Jumpman5 : I'm sticking with FXI...
(22:30:01) sertic : a blackbox system is just one in which has predefined paremeters it is looking for to take a trade
(22:30:04) pipster : thanks sertic, looks good. Anything with adjusted profit factor over 2 is very good
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(22:31:23) ForexRules : how do those predefined parameters adapt to a changing market?
(22:31:24) sertic : It can take up to 25pips slippage on each side of trade
(22:31:41) pipster : i see you factored in slippage
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(22:32:47) pipster : overall, good balance of profit on longs and shorts, another indication of a good system
(22:32:51) sertic : FR- the box is only looking for momentum - mkt conditon doesnt matter as log as mkt does not stay flat whole yr
(22:33:06) ForexRules : gotcha
(22:33:19) ForexRules : momentum is momentum
(22:33:45) sertic : when the trend finally hits you will win and catch 80 percent of move
(22:33:49) pipster : also is for almost 5 yrs, so also factored in 'down' euro yrs, like 2+ yrs ago
(22:34:11) MrSirplus : How long is the average trade length?
(22:34:17) pipster : looks like a nice system, congrats sertic
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(22:34:52) sertic : Itrade lenght can vary from days to 3months up to trendiness
(22:35:21) ForexRules : it looks like the system takes losses, how does it determine a loss exit?
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(22:35:38) sertic : if mkt gets choppy , that is when you can take back to back loses in a row
(22:36:27) pipster : what timeframe does it execute in?
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(22:36:55) sertic : The system is always in positon, when atrade is exited a new opposite one begins. STOP LOSS only hurts performance
(22:37:07) ForexRules : looks like there were 6 consecutive losses maximum
(22:37:44) pipster : does it execute off a daily chart, or 60m, or?
(22:37:52) sertic : I have 2 - one executes on 15min bar and one executes 0n 240 minbar- i prefer 15min because less slippage
(22:38:01) sertic : yes
(22:38:27) sertic : i execute and you money mngt on each trade
(22:39:32) sertic : blew alot of money on lagging indicators, which whipped me all the time in the brg.
(22:39:40) pipster : how are you defining money mgmt, as a % of account?
(22:40:10) sertic : per acct size
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(22:45:41) sertic : no, too much headache- rather just trade solo- never can u tell when trend will show up
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(22:47:29) Nocturnal : given the 4hrly nd 15 mins what hppns when 4hrly is short n 15 min fies off a long signal?
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(22:49:03) sertic : i only trade the 15min my preference-i will try and come to next fx insights seminar
(22:49:54) sertic : you would need to pick a time frame, yet they are usually on same side
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(22:52:37) Nocturnal : tar...impressive considderring the difference in time....that wud have taken a great deal of time to do congrats very impressive stats
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(22:55:05) sertic : I would like to get it too a one min. bar, but have not been able to get lower then 15min
(22:55:42) pipster : you'd rack up alot of trades on a 1min
(22:55:54) pipster : have you tried it on tick?
(22:55:59) Beth : thanks for taking your time to go over this sertic
(22:56:20) sertic : on the 15min you can be in same trade for 2-3 months occasionally
(22:56:35) sertic : no problem-beth
(22:57:31) sertic : I came to the conclusion that swing trading was the style that suits my emotions
(22:58:13) pipster : looks like it's working for you, congrats. Thanks for showing it
(22:58:46) sertic : u welcome- pipster
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(23:04:59) Nocturnal : thanks certic
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