Something

[19:07] <Rascal> Well, I was chatting with friends today and I learned that the avatar and signature policy has changed.
[19:08] <Rascal> I imagine there's been quite the uproar about it, as Noin told me she was going to pull her thread due to this change.
[19:08] <Rascal> I haven't spoken to DS about it, but I know that she had concerns about graphic Avatars and Signatures in the past, and was going to say something about it.
[19:09] <@Greyface> If people want to be emo over something like that, you're going to have to take it up with them.
[19:09] <@Greyface> I'm not responsible for other people's immaturity.
[19:09] <Kaylee> ugh
[19:09] <Rascal> If I may present a counter argument?
[19:09] <Kaylee> Noin sent me about 10 pms of dramabitching in about half an hour this morning
[19:09] <@Greyface> Stop asking if you can ask questions, just ask.
[19:10] <Kaylee> finally I just said "Look, you're saying the same thing over and over, so please come up with something new or stop PMing me"
[19:10] <Rascal> I want to be polite, Nsq. I don't imagine there's been much of that today. :)
[19:10] <Kaylee> I don't think nsq has been hearing it
[19:10] <Kaylee> mostly me since I've been asking people to change them
[19:10] <Kaylee> but yeah, some people have been extremely bitchy over it
[19:10] <@Greyface> Let it be said that a few people being bitchy is not the same as an "uproar".
[19:10] <Kaylee> we're always happy to hear polite suggestions though :P
[19:11] <@Greyface> And if there's one thing I appreciate, it's terseness and not beating around the bush, so spill.
[19:11] <Rascal> I consider DS a friend a colleague, but I disagree with her. This is Darknest; granted yes, there is of course the need to be considerate of others, but by that same token the reason that DN exists is to provide a non-restricted, tolerant, open-minded venue.
[19:11] <Rascal> I think that the policy change, while good hearted, is a step in a direction that's counter to the philosophy and heart of Darknest.
[19:11] <@Greyface> Do you also disagree with thread tagging?
[19:13] <Rascal> We like sex. We like talking about it. We like doing it. We like watching it. We haven't come to DN because we're easily offended, nor to enforce our sense of 'propriety' on others. In fact, you could argue that we're on DN to avoid the 'propriety' that's been forced on us.
[19:13] <Rascal> To avoid the antiquated social mores that exist in today's society that tell us what's right and what's wrong, and that we'll burn in hell if we dare disagree.
[19:13] <@Greyface> That's not what I asked.
[19:13] <Rascal> DN exists to provide a safe, secure haven from the recrimination, rejection and discrimination of society that doesn't have room nor tolerance for people like us, at least not out in the open.
[19:14] <@Greyface> Please stop editorializing and answer my questions.
[19:14] <Rascal> I don't disagree with thread tagging, no.
[19:14] <@Greyface> This is so not what I meant by "terse".
[19:14] <@Greyface> Do you understand the purpose of thread tagging?
[19:15] <Rascal> Yes I do.
[19:15] <@Greyface> This policy is the exact same thing.
[19:15] <Rascal> I disagree.
[19:15] <@Greyface> We don't want to force people to view content they do not like, but allowing any kind of signature images does exactly this.
[19:16] <Rascal> Thread tagging is a courtesy between Darknesters.
[19:16] <@Greyface> No, it is a rule.
[19:16] <@Greyface> Improperly tagged threads are deleted or edited.
[19:16] <@Greyface> And it's been a rule for a long time now.
[19:17] <Rascal> It is not always enforced.
[19:17] <Kaylee> Regardless of the veracity of that claim, it is irrelevant
[19:18] <Rascal> If I continue to take up a counter argument to you it may not come off too well.
[19:18] <@Greyface> If something goes unenforced, that's because we haven't noticed it yet.
[19:18] <@Greyface> That does not change anything.
[19:18] <@Greyface> It just means that hopefully we will get to it; and we will get to it faster if the community helps us by pointing them out.
[19:18] <@Greyface> We're just human and we can't be everywhere at once.
[19:18] <Rascal> I understand the point of rules and common courtesy, but this is going too far.
[19:18] <@Greyface> Why?
[19:19] <@Greyface> Why is your avatar so sacrosanct?
[19:19] <@Greyface> You can write what you want. You can post whatever images you want. You just can't force everyone on the site to view them.
[19:19] <@Greyface> I really don't see why this bothers you so much.
[19:19] <Rascal> Neither my avatar, nor my signature, fall within the restrictions of this policy.
[19:20] <@Greyface> Good for you.
[19:20] <@Greyface> Enjoy them.
[19:21] <Rascal> It bothers me because it screams PC to me. It's enforcing a rule for the entirety of Darknest to appease the complaints of what appears to be a minority.
[19:22] <@Greyface> It's enforcing a rule that should have been there from day one, had I only thought of it.
[19:22] <@Greyface> The suggestion was considered entirely on its own merits, and no "complaints" were taken into consideration.
[19:22] <@Greyface> That's not how we operate.
[19:23] <Rascal> But shouldn't the interests of the community be taken into consideration?
[19:23] <@Greyface> We feel the interests of the community are best served this way.
[19:23] <@Greyface> Hint: You alone are not the community.
[19:23] <@Greyface> And there hasn't exactly been a majority outcry on the matter.
[19:24] * Joins: Epicurus (qweqwe@dm-33342.bliink.ihug.co.nz)
[19:24] <@Greyface> So right now, let's not pretend like your personal opinion on what's better for the community is better than anyone else's, all right?
[19:24] <Rascal> I never claimed to be the voice of the community. I'm merely asking whether that voice should be considered.
[19:24] <@Greyface> The answer to that question is so obvious it baffles me why you would even ask it in the first place.
[19:25] <Rascal> Nsq, I'm speaking to you calmly here. I don't think there's call to make personal attacks on me by suggesting what I am or am not pretending, please :(
[19:25] <@Greyface> Funny how the freedom of expression is always sacrosanct until it starts bothering the people clamoring for it, hm?
[19:26] <@Greyface> Now, do you have any other arguments you want to present?
[19:27] <Rascal> I think the policy change is a mistake for the reasons I stated. You disagree. I think it flies in the face of DN. I'm not talking about tinfoil hats but.. anyway, if what you're going to do is come at me angrily, then I can't argue can I?
[19:27] <@Greyface> And now there's two of us. Awesome.
[19:27] <@Greyface> You could argue with more sensible arguments and not throw a fit.
[19:27] <Rascal> This was all I wanted to discuss.
[19:27] <@Greyface> That always works.
[19:27] <@Greyface> All right. Your opinion has been considered and been rejected.
[19:27] <Rascal> Nsq, I'm not throwing a fit. I'm quite calm here.
[19:27] <@Greyface> Thank you for contributing.
[19:31] <J`din> [19:27] <@Greyface> You could argue with more sensible arguments and not throw a fit. 
[19:31] <J`din> I hate to point this out, but the only one throwing a fit is you Grey.
[19:31] <@Greyface> Oh, totally. I'm bouncing all over the walls.
[19:31] <J`din> You are
[19:32] <J`din> Your sarcasm is appaling.
[19:32] <@Greyface> Yeah, I'm going to go with "not really" on that one, Alex.
[19:32] <J`din> Alright, just thought I'd say it like it is.
[19:32] <@Greyface> Correction: Like your weird anti-me agenda would like it to be.
[19:33] <@Greyface> In the future, try not to, y'know, *invent* things about people when they don't actually do anything wrong.
[19:33] * @Greyface whispers. "It makes you look kind of dumb."
[19:33] <J`din> Greyface, I have no anti-you agenda.
[19:33] <J`din> You're the one on the defensive here.
[19:33] <J`din> You're getting worked up over a single comment.
[19:33] <J`din> I'm going to stop talking now.
[19:34] <@Greyface> "Worked up"? You really are a man of hyperbole, aren't you. But, yeah, you probably should.
[19:35] <@Greyface> You know what they say: To speak is silver, to be silent is gold.
[19:35] <Fandrion[AD]> Hum, not that I'm under the impression that my input on this entire thing would be especially valued or the like, but may I possibly suggest something regarding the Avatars/Signature thingie?
[19:35] <@Greyface> Geh, again, stop asking if you can say something. Just SAY it.
[19:35] <Rascal> Nsq, the reason we ask is because of fear of reprisal.
[19:36] <Rascal> Personally, I'd prefer not to offend anyone in the channel when that is not my express desire.
[19:36] <J`din> Grey, perhaps you should adhear to that adage yourself.
[19:36] <J`din> But lest we forget, the one with the @ here is you.
[19:36] <@Greyface> Rascal, it's going to be just as offensive when you actually say it. All asking about asking does is annoy people and waste time.
[19:36] <J`din> You'll have your way.
[19:36] <Fandrion[AD]> Wouldn't it surely be possible to somehow filter the Avatars/Signatures, allowing people who wish to view those which include somewhat more 'Hardcore' content to keep them while in the same way preventing those who'd not like to see them to have them Censored/Covered?
[19:36] <@Greyface> Fandrion[AD], yes and no. Mostly no.
[19:37] <J`din> It's been done.
[19:37] <@Greyface> J`din, but unlike you, I actually talk about interesting and relevant things.
[19:37] <J`din> There's a mod that shows a person's signature only once in a thread.
[19:37] <J`din> for phpBB.
[19:37] <J`din> It's certainly do-able Fandrion.
[19:38] <@Greyface> Which is why I said "yes and no, mostly no".
[19:38] <J`din> I'm sure the same mod could be used to, albiet, modified for functionality like you've said.
[19:38] <@Greyface> Just because you *can* do it doesn
[19:38] <@Greyface> Just because you *can* do it doesn't mean you *should*.
[19:38] <J`din> it's a simple as adding a database entry.
[19:38] <@Greyface> There's a lot more to it than that.
[19:38] <Rascal> Nsq, offensive or no, at least some modicum of respect and polite conduct is a good idea if I'm going to approach an admin with a volatile idea. You can ban me. You carry the big stick.
[19:38] <J`din>  "Show ava/sig?" "True" "If show ava = true { showava }
[19:39] <J`din> else {dontshowava}
[19:39] <@Greyface> Letting people disable EVERYONE'S avatars would be a slim thing, but that's not very useful.
[19:39] <@Greyface> And not what the question is about.
[19:39] <J`din> Why not?
[19:39] <J`din> To selectively disable, use cookies.
[19:39] <@Greyface> Because we're talking about individual avatars/signatures that offend, not *every* signature across the board.
[19:39] <Rascal> You can say whatever you like to me, but I don't have that liberty. Hence, why I approached this the way I did.
[19:39] <@Greyface> ... cookies? You know absolutely nothing about web coding, do you?
[19:39] <Kaylee> It's no secret NSQ gets a little... vehement sometimes :P    You can talk to me in private if you want a more gentle reception of your opinion XD    Don't think NSQ doesn't listen and consider just because he's a bit outspoken, though.
[19:39] <@Greyface> Rascal, and in doing so, you only damaged your own case.
[19:40] <J`din> He does listen Kaylee
[19:40] <J`din> No one is disputing that.
[19:40] <J`din> He just has an odd way of showing that he is.
[19:40] <Kaylee> Just reminding everyone :P
[19:40] <Unknown> i think avatars are full of LAWL
[19:40] <J`din> In anycase, it's do-able.
[19:40] <J`din> Just would take a little bit of work.
[19:41] <@Greyface> More than a little bit of work, and would have unpleasant side effects.
[19:41] <@Greyface> It's especially ill-fitting considering work is being done on DN3.
[19:41] <Unknown> aslong as Skellums avatar is deemed ok, ill be happy, i love the hypnotic boob bounceing
[19:41] <@Greyface> That's acceptable.
[19:41] <Unknown> sweet ^_^
[19:41] <J`din> Then why not build that into DN3?
[19:41] <J`din> I'm sure you and Rain are more than capable.
[19:42] <Unknown> poor kaylee is cold, and no one has offered her hot coco
[19:42] <@Greyface> Because, again, it has unpleasant side effects.
[19:42] <Unknown> damn it all
[19:42] <@Greyface> That's not to say it's not being considered; it's just not very likely.
[19:42] <J`din> Such as?
[19:42] <Kaylee> has calories. do not want
[19:42] <@Greyface> It's full of details that you wouldn't understand.
[19:43] <J`din> You'd be surprised Grey.
[19:43] <Unknown> whats wrong with calories?
[19:43] <@Greyface> (Plus I don't want to spend all evening explaining them to you when it's pointless anyway.)
[19:43] <J`din> Your assumption that I do not know coding already confirms my perception of you.
[19:44] <J`din> So excuse me for not being 100%
[19:44] <@Greyface> Far from it, in fact...
[19:44] <J`din> Oh wait, I'm stupid and don't know anything as far as you're concerned.
[19:44] <J`din> You think you're better than me.
[19:44] <Rascal> Nsq, what it does is mean I don't feel I can speak to you and get a rational, reasonable, receptive ear, now. Rather, that the prefered conduct here is not to say anything at all if you disagree.
[19:45] <J`din> You're on a highhorse.
[19:45] <@Greyface> Uh, I *am* better than you.
[19:45] <J`din> Get off of it.
[19:45] <@Greyface> Rascal, I listened to what you had to say. I just didn't agree.
[19:45] <@Greyface> Please realize that there is a difference.
[19:46] <@Greyface> If you think you can't speak to the administration, well, that's regrettable, but ultimately that's because your impression is warped.
[19:46] <Rascal> I don't mind that you disagreed. I was fairly certain that would be the result. I didn't envision the rejection would be conveyed in that manner.
[19:46] <Unknown> i think there needs to be a 3rd party mod for this discution
[19:46] <@Greyface> If you can get over that, you'll find us very approachable.
[19:46] <J`din> My impression is warped?
[19:46] <J`din> You've done a pretty good job affirming my impression./