<aka_druid_> I was
<aka_druid_> am, dunno
* cb400f wonders if the zenworks-yast team knows..
<aka_druid_> mrpudding: ok, so one question to start. How many ppl is the zen team working in this stuff?
<bill-barriere> no zenwork ... need a managed station plugin in yast then make the package manager really use zmd , add a filter for box you wanna use and your in affair
<aka_druid_> what Id like to see is those ppl flying to nurenberg, working in the same office as ppl doing the yast module
<_Marcus_> aka_druid_: they did for 2 weeks ;)
<bill-barriere> to fix up for release as nothing was working ...
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<aka_druid_> _Marcus_: no, I mean for 8 months
<cb400f> yup, AJ mentioned that in the status meeting.. seems a lot of progress was made
<_Marcus_> aka_druid_: well, that might be too hard
<aka_druid_> _Marcus_: all handcuffed one to another til they get sick of seeing each other
<bill-barriere> :)
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<cb400f> maybe it would be better flying some of the Nürnberg devs to US.. talk some sence into the Novell suits ..
<aka_druid_> _Marcus_: cmon, theres cheap erdinger in there. Id go without thinking twice
<aka_druid_> cb400f: novell suits have that reputation...
<aka_druid_> !ned
<_Marcus_> nuernberg has better beer than erdinger ;)
<SuSEhelp> ned is Novell Entropy Dept
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<mrpudding> ok, guys
<mrpudding> stay tuned for a pictorial explanation
<mrpudding> http://www.natbudin.com/package-management-in-code10.png
<cb400f> mrpudding: very nice, and very helpful
* mrpudding bows
<apokryphos> I see
<mrpudding> :)
* bill-barriere looking
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<benJIman> mrpudding: are the data files in /var/lib/zmd serialized .net objects or something?
<snorp> benJIman: yeah, some of them are
<benJIman> snorp: unfortunately means every time they're corrupted one can't fix them with a text editor
<mrpudding> benJIman: the most significant one is the sqlite database (the diamond over on the right)
<benJIman> which wouldn't be a problem if they wern't frequently corrupted
<snorp> benJIman: sure, but I've never seen one get corrupted...
<mrpudding> benJIman: this stores 99.9% of the data you care about
<mrpudding> benJIman: you can edit it using sqlite3
<benJIman> mrpudding: the sources list appears to just be serialized to file though
<benJIman> unless i'm wrong
<snorp> yeah, it is
<snorp> benJIman: you've seen that become corrupted?
<benJIman> yes several times a week
<mrpudding> benJIman: not a very high risk for corruption in that one, IMO
<snorp> seriously?!
<benJIman> I have to re-add them all
<mrpudding> whoa
<snorp> benJIman: is it reproducable?
<mrpudding> are you sure that's not corruption of the zmd.db causing those sources not to show up?
<snorp> I have honestly *never* seen that file get corrupted
<mrpudding> yeah, me neither
<benJIman> snorp: well it happens at random times, probably one of the repositories triggering something odd I suppose
<benJIman> presumably it's something in zmd itself that writes that?
<snorp> benJIman: what are the symptoms of this corruption
<benJIman`> snorp: clients don't see any of the sources any more, they are clearly there visible catting the file
<benJIman`> and it won't add any new until deleted the file
<snorp> benJIman`: hmm, crazy
<snorp> never seen that
<benJIman`> while you knowledgable people are here how can one regenerate the product id in /var/lib/zypp/db/products?
<snorp> benJIman`: what does it do when you try to add a new one then?
<mrpudding> benJIman: next time that happens, could you file a bug and attach your sources file to it?
<benJIman`> snorp: gives an "informative" error like unable to add repository
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<aka_druid_> oh damn, I leave for 5 secs and you are all talking agian
<aka_druid_> humpf
<benJIman`> I will make a note next time and see if I can add a trace or something
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<snorp> benJIman`: yeah, please file a bug next time
<mrpudding> benJIman: incidentally, do you know about the debug settings in zmd?
<snorp> benJIman`: running with with --debug might give more info too
<snorp> s/with/rug/
<benJIman`> mrpudding: they what generate the 10gb logfiles? :)
<mrpudding> benJIman`: rug set log-level debug ; rug set log-exception-traces true
<mrpudding> benJIman`: no, that's libzypp generating the 10gb logfile no matter what :)
<benJIman`> re my above question about product id, this isn't generated upon upgrading from previous version or using custom made cds, or even with the addon cd it appears
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<benJIman`> and I can't find a way to re-generate it
<benJIman`> so online update configuration won't work, people would have to know the exact url for update server
<mrpudding> benJIman`: yeah, no idea about that one, you'd have to ask one of the libzypp developers
<bill-barriere> .. ho yeah 9gig log file seen some of those ... evil
<aka_druid_> mrpudding: mind if I set a wiki page with taht pic, where we could track the situation, suggestions? Or you ppl already have something. That would be quite informative for lots of ppl
<mrpudding> bill-barriere: actually, the excessive logging should also be somewhat reduced by aj's new patch
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<mrpudding> aka_druid_: ok, just make sure to copy it onto the wiki server, because I probably won't be keeping it on my personal web space
<aka_druid_> ok
<bill-barriere> well that zen-updater thingy ??? remove it just leave an applet to track patch then yast need connect directly to zmd
<bill-barriere> zen-installer zen-remover zen... wtf
<benJIman`> do a diff on the source files for zen-updater zen-installer and whatever the other one is, most amusing
<aka_druid_> mrpudding: that yast package managemnt goin straight to libzypp doesnt feel right
<mrpudding> aka_druid_: yeah, personally, I'd like to be able to remove the big curvy arrow on the left and replace it with an arrow right down to zmd
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<symtab> hello
<benJIman`> mrpudding: why does yast start zmd, for syncing sources? does it actually add every source twice?
<mrpudding> benJIman`: yeah, when you tell yast to add a source, it runs "rug service-add ..." itself
<symtab> any ideas why php doesnt link with -lxcrypt when compilling on a system that has libxcrypt instead of libcrypt?
<jhenn> in suse can you install closed source programs by accident?
<mrpudding> there's no equivalent command for yast, so it's harder for zmd to sync back
<aka_druid_> symtab: hmm.. ask in #suse
<symtab> aka_druid: ok
<symtab> thanks
<benJIman`> jhenn: you asked earlier and were answered, do you have a point ?
<aka_druid_> jhenn: ask in #suse too heh
<bill-barriere> it shouldnt need to sync back
<benJIman`> indeed
<benJIman`> adding things twice is insane as it takes so long anyway
<mrpudding> yeah, I agree, if yast was just frontending straight to zmd we wouldn't need to deal with this syncing nonsense
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<benJIman`> the syncing is 90% of the problems imo
<aka_druid_> theres a very small page for zmd where we could put that http://en.opensuse.org/Zmd
<benJIman`> using one or the other is much more reliable
<mrpudding> nod
<benJIman`> mrpudding: is there any configuration option to turn off syncing or is it hardcoded?
<aka_druid_> ok, ppl stay tuned in http://en.opensuse.org/Zmd
<mrpudding> benJIman`: I've looked and haven't found one, I think it's probably hardcoded in yast
<benJIman`> except for the resolver problems and they mainly seem to effect rug/zen-updater, havn't had problems with yast
<mrpudding> yeah, I think a lot of those problems will be worked out with aj's patch and other upcoming patches
<mrpudding> like snorp said, the zmd+zypp integration isn't really mature yet
<mrpudding> just as a sidenote, zmd is also the management daemon in ZENworks Linux Management 7, where it uses a different backend - libredcarpet - and in general is much faster and reliable with that
<aka_druid_> mrpudding: I hope that making it mature means abandoning the way its done now and putting the proper front end to ayst and not the dual stuff
<mrpudding> me too
<bill-barriere> also the helper thingy ? thats an additional useless stage cant that alredy be done by zypp lib itself
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<mrpudding> bill-barriere: actually, there is a good technical reason for that one
<benJIman`> mono ?
<mrpudding> bill-barriere: libzypp is written in C++
<bill-barriere> urg
<mrpudding> not C
<mrpudding> linking non-C++ code against C++ code is very difficult due to ABI instability and name mangling and all that good stuff
<bill-barriere> writing zmd in mon wasnt right
<bill-barriere> :(
<bill-barriere> that should be in good old c++ too
<snorp> well, some of us wanted to use ycp
<snorp> but it didn't work out
<mrpudding> bill-barriere: maybe. writing libzypp in C++ was definitely not right, it should have been C
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* apokryphos installs patches
<bill-barriere> ... no its mono the problem dont put it on c++
<benJIman`> bill-barriere: well have to get mono to talk to it
<aka_druid_> mrpudding: meh, may I ask your name, for the credits?
<benJIman`> need a c++ compiler for mono
<mrpudding> bill-barriere: actually, if you look at the output of top while running rug, you'll see very high cpu usage from the C++ components and none from zmd (the mono component)
<mrpudding> bill-barriere: so I don't think that's correct
<mrpudding> aka_druid_: sure, my name is Nat Budin
<aka_druid_> ok thx
<benJIman`> mrpudding: it's parse-metadata and update-status and query-system which are the killers
<mrpudding> benJIman`: right, those are written in C++ and linking to C++ code
<bill-barriere> mmmm
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<bill-barriere> those are indeed annoying
<mrpudding> there's a lot of optimization that could be done on libzypp that hasn't been yet
<aka_druid_> dunno how to add the pic heh
<bill-barriere> aka_druid, there is a image page somewhere to upload thingy
<mrpudding> it's a brand-new library, so I'd expect to see some serious optimization done on it for 10.2
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<aka_druid_> bill-barriere: link me!
* benJIman` needs to sleep
<mrpudding> right now, the general idea has been that it's best to get the functionality working right first, and then we can optimize
<benJIman`> thanks mrpudding and snorp for clarifying things
<aka_druid_> mrpudding: keep talking. Ill add the info you and _Marcus_ gave us in there, I hope
<mrpudding> benJIman`: no problem!
<snorp> benJIman`: np
<_Marcus_> i actually saw update-status wasting quite some time on the dvd9 packages file
<aka_druid_> !sleep
<SuSEhelp> sleep is for the tired
<bill-barriere> http://en.opensuse.org/Special:Upload
<aka_druid_> and snorp
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<apokryphos> yup, very enlightening :)