Inbox Morphix-Develeopment
Joshua Perrymon
to morphix-devel
More options May 16(6 days ago)
Hey Guys,
I'd like to build in Java JRE support for some application I would like to
include on my Morphix Distro.. What is the best way to implement this? I
believe the Java files come packaged in a .bin file..
Thanks,
JP
Joshua Perrymon, C.E.H.
Sr. Security Consultant
-----------------------------------------
Pure Hacking - The Leaders In Internet Security
-----Original Message-----
From: Brendan M. Sleight [mailto:me.spam@barwap.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 16 May 2006 6:14 AM
To: morphix-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Morphix-devel] New autobuild schedule
Ping morphix-devel.email [Please ignore]
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Paul
to morphix-devel
More options May 16(6 days ago)
Hi Joshua
On Tuesday 16 May 2006 06:25, Joshua Perrymon wrote:
> I'd like to build in Java JRE support for some application I would like to
> include on my Morphix Distro.. What is the best way to implement this? I
> believe the Java files come packaged in a .bin file..
Please note, much of what follows is a personal opinion and does not in any
way reflect the views of others connected with Morphix..
<rant>Java is evil, nasty, bloat.</rant>
On a more practical note, probably the best way of incorporating Java is via a
mini module - This could be quickly built using the non-free debs from
ftp://sunsite.dk/mirrors/java-linux/debian/ - To separate your custom
application from the JRE, I would recommend a second mini module.
On the subject of a JRE mini module, I would suggest taking advantage of a new
Morphix service that is in the early stages of being set up - As you may be
aware, there is a small number of computers building the Morphix base along
with a small selection of main modules. The schedule has been reorganised of
late and two time slots are available for "Guest Builds". At present, there
is no web interface set up for submissions, so templates can be mailed to us
here on this list..
A JRE mini module would be an ideal candidate to test the automated process to
see how well it copes with Sun's EULA..
Regards, Paul.
- Show quoted text -
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Brendan M. Sleight
to morphix-devel
More options May 16(6 days ago)
Hi Joshua, Paul et al,
On 5/16/06, Paul wrote:
>
> On Tuesday 16 May 2006 06:25, Joshua Perrymon wrote:
> > I'd like to build in Java JRE support for some application I would like to
> > include on my Morphix Distro.. What is the best way to implement this? I
> > believe the Java files come packaged in a .bin file..
>
> On a more practical note, probably the best way of incorporating Java is via a
> mini module - This could be quickly built using the non-free debs from
> ftp://sunsite.dk/mirrors/java-linux/debian/ - To separate your custom
> application from the JRE, I would recommend a second mini module.
As a working example of the process we have a template to build the
Nvidia MiniModules. The nvidia files also come packed in a.bin file.
I have built a XML template :-
http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/morphix/trunk/scripts-mini/nvidia/MiniModuleNvidia_2.6.15-morphix1.xml?content-type=text%2Fplain&rev=2210&pathrev=2210
By using morphmini.
http://www.morphix.org/manual/how_tos/all_man_pages/html/ar01s12.html
The minimodule is built containing the bin file and then minimodule
installs the nviidia files on boot-up.
> mini module - This could be quickly built using the non-free debs from
> ftp://sunsite.dk/mirrors/java-linux/debian/ - To separate your custom
Note in this example how .debs can be added to a minimodule:-
......
<file>http://www.barwap.com/morphix/nvidia-kernel-2.6.15-morphix1_1.0.8756-4_i386.deb</file>
......
<command>dpkg --install
$1/morphix/files/nvidia-kernel-2.6.15-morphix1_1.0.8756-4_i386.deb</command>
......
It is also one of the autobuilt minimodules:-
http://morphix.org/autobuilds/minimod/?M=D
As java contains non-GPL files, having a seperate minimodule allows
other users to easly remove non-GPL and make the .iso GPL again. A
JavaMiniModule would be a real nice asset to Morphix generally.
Hope this helps,
Brendan
Reply Forward
Alex de Landgraaf
to morphix-devel
More options May 16(6 days ago)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
>> On Tuesday 16 May 2006 06:25, Joshua Perrymon wrote:
>> > I'd like to build in Java JRE support for some application I would
>> like to
>> > include on my Morphix Distro.. What is the best way to implement
>> this? I
>> > believe the Java files come packaged in a .bin file..
Sorry for being the odd-one-out on this, but how about adding the gcj
and kaffe packages to the mainmodule, straight from the Debian
repositories? Either manually add these packages (see the Morphix
documentation) to the mainmodule, or if you're using mmaker add these
packages to the mainmodule template.
I guess it depends if the application in question runs using Kaffe, but
if it works you'd only have to add the application itself, either using
a minimodule or otherwise. If a free alternative works, I'd personally
think twice about using a non-free one.
just my two cents,
Alex
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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Charles Wyble
<charles@thewybles.com> to Alex, morphix-devel
More options May 16(6 days ago)
What is the big deal with java licensing? I mean I read there EULA. It
allows free redistribution of the JDK and JRE. I am including it (pre
installed in /usr/local/java) in my distro.
I mean I can see not including it so you have a fully GPL iso. But
beyond that..... whats the point?
- Show quoted text -
Alex de Landgraaf wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>>> On Tuesday 16 May 2006 06:25, Joshua Perrymon wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd like to build in Java JRE support for some application I would
>>>>
>>> like to
>>>
>>>> include on my Morphix Distro.. What is the best way to implement
>>>>
>>> this? I
>>>
>>>> believe the Java files come packaged in a .bin file..
>>>>
>
> Sorry for being the odd-one-out on this, but how about adding the gcj
> and kaffe packages to the mainmodule, straight from the Debian
> repositories? Either manually add these packages (see the Morphix
> documentation) to the mainmodule, or if you're using mmaker add these
> packages to the mainmodule template.
>
> I guess it depends if the application in question runs using Kaffe, but
> if it works you'd only have to add the application itself, either using
> a minimodule or otherwise. If a free alternative works, I'd personally
> think twice about using a non-free one.
>
> just my two cents,
>
> Alex
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFEak2cQeuQA5TF/UsRAogGAJ9hAlyZubaZL7zy5SIYl+7pkQ+zPQCfUE3/
> /FicvdH4+aGB9OAQKP9gH+0=
> =/bGk
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
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> _______________________________________________
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> Morphix-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/morphix-devel
>
>
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Alex de Landgraaf
to morphix-devel
More options May 17(6 days ago)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Charles Wyble wrote:
> What is the big deal with java licensing? I mean I read there EULA. It
> allows free redistribution of the JDK and JRE. I am including it (pre
> installed in /usr/local/java) in my distro.
> I mean I can see not including it so you have a fully GPL iso. But
> beyond that..... whats the point?
Are you sure you read the EULA?
This is from the latest JDK:
- --
5. Restrictions.
(a) The copies of Software provided to you under this
Agreement are licensed, not sold, to you by Sun. Sun
reserves all rights not expressly granted. (b) You may
make a single archival copy of Software, but otherwise
may not copy, modify, or distribute Software. However
if the Sun documentation accompanying Software lists
specific portions of Software, such as header files,
class libraries, reference source code, and/or
redistributable files, that may be handled
differently, you may do so only as provided in the Sun
documentation. (c) You may not rent, lease, lend or
encumber Software. (d) Unless enforcement is
prohibited by applicable law, you may not decompile,
or reverse engineer Software. (etc etc etc)
- --
Distribution of the JDK is simply not allowed.
Now the JRE:
- --
B. License to Distribute Software. Subject to the terms and
conditions of this Agreement and restrictions and
exceptions set forth in the Software README file,
including, but not limited to the Java Technology
Restrictions of these Supplemental Terms, Sun grants you a
non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited license without
fees to reproduce and distribute the Software, provided
that (i) you distribute the Software complete and
unmodified and only bundled as part of, and for the sole
purpose of running, your Programs, (ii) the Programs add
significant and primary functionality to the Software,
(iii) you do not distribute additional software intended to
replace any component(s) of the Software, (iv) you do not
remove or alter any proprietary legends or notices
contained in the Software, (v) you only distribute the
Software subject to a license agreement that protects Sun's
interests consistent with the terms contained in this
Agreement, and (vi) you agree to defend and indemnify Sun
and its licensors from and against any damages, costs,
liabilities, settlement amounts and/or expenses (including
attorneys' fees) incurred in connection with any claim,
lawsuit or action by any third party that arises or results
from the use or distribution of any and all Programs and/or
Software.
- --
Slightly more flexible, but still there are quite a few hairy issues
with this bit.
I'm no lawyer, so I won't pretend I'm qualified on legal matters, but I
wouldn't distribute the JRE under these terms. I have been making
exceptions for the Nvidia driver in the past, but only after consulting
Nvidia and the EULA thoroughly, and even then I'd rather have it
separate in a minimodule so it can be ripped out on a moments notice
without harm. I'm not fond of it, and would rather keep it out all together.
If something is in Debian, you can be fairly sure it's been looked over
well enough on the legal front. If it isn't, not even in non-free, then
simply be careful. Of course, SUN won't come running after you the
second you add their JDK to your distro, but they could, and that's
enough for me to think twice about it.
Anyway, just my two cents.
cheers,
Alex
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEalw2QeuQA5TF/UsRAuvCAKCBKZ2BA58zKMyN8/DA8cUs2GSuSQCfRWyk
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=x2i2
- Show quoted text -
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Matthew Ray
to Alex, morphix-devel
More options May 17(5 days ago)
According to https://jdk-distros.dev.java.net/
It looks like they just changed the licenses for JDK/JRE distribution
so they're free enough for Debian to distribute. It looks like it
must already be in unstable, I just need to figure out how to get it
into Sarge for my apps.
Matt
- Show quoted text -
On 5/16/06, Alex de Landgraaf <alex@delandgraaf.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Charles Wyble wrote:
> > What is the big deal with java licensing? I mean I read there EULA. It
> > allows free redistribution of the JDK and JRE. I am including it (pre
> > installed in /usr/local/java) in my distro.
> > I mean I can see not including it so you have a fully GPL iso. But
> > beyond that..... whats the point?
>
> Are you sure you read the EULA?
>
> This is from the latest JDK:
>
> - --
> 5. Restrictions.
>
> (a) The copies of Software provided to you under this
> Agreement are licensed, not sold, to you by Sun. Sun
> reserves all rights not expressly granted. (b) You may
> make a single archival copy of Software, but otherwise
> may not copy, modify, or distribute Software. However
> if the Sun documentation accompanying Software lists
> specific portions of Software, such as header files,
> class libraries, reference source code, and/or
> redistributable files, that may be handled
> differently, you may do so only as provided in the Sun
> documentation. (c) You may not rent, lease, lend or
> encumber Software. (d) Unless enforcement is
> prohibited by applicable law, you may not decompile,
> or reverse engineer Software. (etc etc etc)
> - --
>
> Distribution of the JDK is simply not allowed.
>
> Now the JRE:
>
> - --
> B. License to Distribute Software. Subject to the terms and
> conditions of this Agreement and restrictions and
> exceptions set forth in the Software README file,
> including, but not limited to the Java Technology
> Restrictions of these Supplemental Terms, Sun grants you a
> non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited license without
> fees to reproduce and distribute the Software, provided
> that (i) you distribute the Software complete and
> unmodified and only bundled as part of, and for the sole
> purpose of running, your Programs, (ii) the Programs add
> significant and primary functionality to the Software,
> (iii) you do not distribute additional software intended to
> replace any component(s) of the Software, (iv) you do not
> remove or alter any proprietary legends or notices
> contained in the Software, (v) you only distribute the
> Software subject to a license agreement that protects Sun's
> interests consistent with the terms contained in this
> Agreement, and (vi) you agree to defend and indemnify Sun
> and its licensors from and against any damages, costs,
> liabilities, settlement amounts and/or expenses (including
> attorneys' fees) incurred in connection with any claim,
> lawsuit or action by any third party that arises or results
> from the use or distribution of any and all Programs and/or
> Software.
> - --
>
> Slightly more flexible, but still there are quite a few hairy issues
> with this bit.
>
> I'm no lawyer, so I won't pretend I'm qualified on legal matters, but I
> wouldn't distribute the JRE under these terms. I have been making
> exceptions for the Nvidia driver in the past, but only after consulting
> Nvidia and the EULA thoroughly, and even then I'd rather have it
> separate in a minimodule so it can be ripped out on a moments notice
> without harm. I'm not fond of it, and would rather keep it out all together.
>
> If something is in Debian, you can be fairly sure it's been looked over
> well enough on the legal front. If it isn't, not even in non-free, then
> simply be careful. Of course, SUN won't come running after you the
> second you add their JDK to your distro, but they could, and that's
> enough for me to think twice about it.
>
> Anyway, just my two cents.
>
> cheers,
> Alex
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFEalw2QeuQA5TF/UsRAuvCAKCBKZ2BA58zKMyN8/DA8cUs2GSuSQCfRWyk
> C3FNouDirDCji7igvJRs1d8=
> =x2i2
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
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> _______________________________________________
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> Morphix-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/morphix-devel
>
-------------------------------------------------------
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_______________________________________________
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Joshua Perrymon
to morphix-devel
More options May 17(5 days ago)
Ok,
So if it's allowed then we can build a mini-module similar to Nvidia that
installs the .bin or debian package at runtime.. Well.. I guess if it's a
debian package we could just place it in the deb folder..
Next I must figure out how to install these programs using the morphix
framework.. Most of the security apps I'm going to install place files in
/etc /usr/bin /usr/bin/local so on...
So I suppose I'll need to track down each file location and either build a
mini module or put in the copy dir..
But first I'm going to work on the Java mini module as suggested in this
thread by Alex.
Should have so time this weekend.
Joshua Perrymon, C.E.H.
Sr. Security Consultant
-----------------------------------------
Pure Hacking - The Leaders In Internet Security
-----Original Message-----
- Show quoted text -
From: Matthew Ray [mailto:matthewhray@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 12:20 PM
To: Alex de Landgraaf
Cc: morphix-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Morphix-devel] Building in Java SDK / JRE support
According to https://jdk-distros.dev.java.net/
It looks like they just changed the licenses for JDK/JRE distribution so
they're free enough for Debian to distribute. It looks like it must already
be in unstable, I just need to figure out how to get it into Sarge for my
apps.
Matt
On 5/16/06, Alex de Landgraaf <alex@delandgraaf.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Charles Wyble wrote:
> > What is the big deal with java licensing? I mean I read there EULA.
> > It allows free redistribution of the JDK and JRE. I am including it
> > (pre installed in /usr/local/java) in my distro. I mean I can see
> > not including it so you have a fully GPL iso. But beyond that.....
> > whats the point?
>
> Are you sure you read the EULA?
>
> This is from the latest JDK:
>
> - --
> 5. Restrictions.
>
> (a) The copies of Software provided to you under this Agreement are
> licensed, not sold, to you by Sun. Sun reserves all rights not
> expressly granted. (b) You may make a single archival copy of
> Software, but otherwise may not copy, modify, or distribute Software.
> However if the Sun documentation accompanying Software lists
> specific portions of Software, such as header files,
> class libraries, reference source code, and/or
> redistributable files, that may be handled
> differently, you may do so only as provided in the Sun
> documentation. (c) You may not rent, lease, lend or
> encumber Software. (d) Unless enforcement is
> prohibited by applicable law, you may not decompile,
> or reverse engineer Software. (etc etc etc)
> - --
>
> Distribution of the JDK is simply not allowed.
>
> Now the JRE:
>
> - --
> B. License to Distribute Software. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement and restrictions and exceptions set forth in the
> Software README file, including, but not limited to the Java
> Technology Restrictions of these Supplemental Terms, Sun grants you a
> non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited license without
> fees to reproduce and distribute the Software, provided
> that (i) you distribute the Software complete and
> unmodified and only bundled as part of, and for the sole
> purpose of running, your Programs, (ii) the Programs add
> significant and primary functionality to the Software,
> (iii) you do not distribute additional software intended to
> replace any component(s) of the Software, (iv) you do not
> remove or alter any proprietary legends or notices
> contained in the Software, (v) you only distribute the
> Software subject to a license agreement that protects Sun's
> interests consistent with the terms contained in this
> Agreement, and (vi) you agree to defend and indemnify Sun
> and its licensors from and against any damages, costs,
> liabilities, settlement amounts and/or expenses (including
> attorneys' fees) incurred in connection with any claim,
> lawsuit or action by any third party that arises or results
> from the use or distribution of any and all Programs and/or
> Software.
> - --
>
> Slightly more flexible, but still there are quite a few hairy issues
> with this bit.
>
> I'm no lawyer, so I won't pretend I'm qualified on legal matters, but
> I wouldn't distribute the JRE under these terms. I have been making
> exceptions for the Nvidia driver in the past, but only after
> consulting Nvidia and the EULA thoroughly, and even then I'd rather
> have it separate in a minimodule so it can be ripped out on a moments
> notice without harm. I'm not fond of it, and would rather keep it out
> all together.
>
> If something is in Debian, you can be fairly sure it's been looked
> over well enough on the legal front. If it isn't, not even in
> non-free, then simply be careful. Of course, SUN won't come running
> after you the second you add their JDK to your distro, but they could,
> and that's enough for me to think twice about it.
>
> Anyway, just my two cents.
>
> cheers,
> Alex
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFEalw2QeuQA5TF/UsRAuvCAKCBKZ2BA58zKMyN8/DA8cUs2GSuSQCfRWyk
> C3FNouDirDCji7igvJRs1d8=
> =x2i2
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services,
> security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to
> make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1
> based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Morphix-devel mailing list
> Morphix-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/morphix-devel
>
-------------------------------------------------------
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- Show quoted text -
_______________________________________________
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Paul
to morphix-devel
More options May 17(5 days ago)
Hi Matt
On Wednesday 17 May 2006 03:19, Matthew Ray wrote:
> It looks like they just changed the licenses for JDK/JRE distribution
> so they're free enough for Debian to distribute. It looks like it
> must already be in unstable, I just need to figure out how to get it
> into Sarge for my apps.
Indeed, Sun's JRE & JDK packages are in unstable, all be it non-free, but
there is a warning in the package description
<quote>
NOTE: You must accept Sun's EULA prior to successfully installing this package
</quote>
All the licenses can be viewed here:
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/download.jsp - A quick scan of the relevant
docs would suggest that we can build and distribute mini.mods containing
JRE/JDK..
On a brighter note, it looks like the Debian package contains the standard Sun
compiled binaries, so these should run on a Sarge install without any
problems - There is no version dependency for libc6 which is a good sign for
you. As for installing unstable packages on a stable install, you can either
have hours of endless fun with apt & pinning, or download to a local
directory and use dpkg.
Regards, Paul.
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More options May 17(5 days ago)
On Wednesday 17 May 2006 10:52, Paul wrote:
> Indeed, Sun's JRE & JDK packages are in unstable, all be it non-free, but
> there is a warning in the package description
As a follow up to this, prompted by a discussion on my local LUG IRC channel,
Sun have indeed relaxed their licence a little in respect to distribution,
however, they do impose a very specific requirement on distributors (and I'm
sure we fall in to this catagory). Quoting verbatum from the Q&A page at
http://download.java.net/dlj/
#6:
- Present for acceptance any end user licenses that are part of the JDK,
if such licenses are included in the generic install bundle provided
to you for repackaging.
- Indemnify Sun against claims arising from your OS or your violation of
the DLJ (or any applicable law) Note that you are not responsible for
changes made to your OS distribution by downstream users or distributors
when such changes are out of your control.
and #9
Your users must agree to the license terms for ethe JDK before
installing it. While you aren't required to show the DLJ on first
use or installation, you must inform them that ethe JDK is licensed
software and that they must agree to the license before using it. A
click-through mechanism is the preferred way to do this, but at a
minimum you must present the license by some appropriate means for
acceptance.
Hope that helps to clear up some of the reservations that I (and possibly
others) over Java.. Of course we still have the GPL kaffe that can be freely
included and distributed.
Regards, Paul.
(My last words on Sun's java... maybe).
-------------------------------------------------------
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
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