2006/05/21 07:40:17 <kh_pylon> yep
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2006/05/21 07:44:41 <BeBraw> :s all would work just fine if Bill had chosen / instead of \
2006/05/21 07:46:07 <intrr> I don't think bill chose it.
2006/05/21 07:46:31 <antont> also / works in py on win32, but not necessarily for PIL .. there is also os.path.sep constant which is the separator on that platform (like macos <10 used to have : iirc)
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2006/05/21 07:46:39 <intrr> or maybe he did, i don't think cp/m supported directories.
2006/05/21 07:47:19 <antont> i wonder what VMS uses? at least there is a DIR command and files are CAPITALIZED
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2006/05/21 07:57:52 <macouno> antont: did you make your swarm type script for orange also rotate objects around their y axis? I'm having issues with roll values
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2006/05/21 07:58:31 <antont> yes the plugs of the wires rotate
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2006/05/21 07:59:00 <macouno> hmm as soon as I do some roll they all go nuts ;)
2006/05/21 07:59:05 <macouno> I'm getting somewhere though
2006/05/21 07:59:24 <antont> there is a hand-made ipo that shapes the rotating, Andy actually draw the version used in the movie
2006/05/21 07:59:50 <macouno> hehe
2006/05/21 07:59:59 <macouno> Here's where I'm at sort of: http://www.alienhelpdesk.com/misc/swarmtest3.mov
2006/05/21 08:00:04 <antont> connector.roty.addBezier((adj_frame, key.pt[1]))
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2006/05/21 08:00:10 <macouno> I've got them moving with a "current" now as well
2006/05/21 08:00:28 <macouno> I still really want to add a "container"
2006/05/21 08:00:45 <ideasman_42_> Hey if antones interested, functionality Q. could the button's header frame slider be clamped between the start and end frames? - between 0 and 300000 is a lot to slide.
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2006/05/21 08:01:30 <antont> macouno: i see why you want a 'container' :)
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2006/05/21 08:01:48 <macouno> well I can keep them closer to the "group centre" got a setting for that
2006/05/21 08:02:09 <macouno> But if I want them to speed up when moving with a current and slow down against it... they'd just dissapear ;)
2006/05/21 08:02:26 <macouno> And it'd be nice if I could have a swarm move through eh... streets for instance
2006/05/21 08:02:38 --- kaito has changed the topic to: Meeting time!! http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/SundayMeetingAgenda
2006/05/21 08:02:46 <antont> macouno: yah. did you look at the landing ones in Breve
2006/05/21 08:02:48 <antont> ?
2006/05/21 08:03:02 <antont> ok and let's shut up about this here now :)
2006/05/21 08:03:03 --- kaito has changed the topic to: Meeting time!!
2006/05/21 08:03:05 <macouno> Oh Kaito: letterRip mentioned you may have actually got Baking internally in your planning?
2006/05/21 08:03:12 <kaito> no wiki agenda apparently :)
2006/05/21 08:03:30 * intrr supposed there was no meeting precisely because of that :)
2006/05/21 08:03:33 <kaito> macouno: yep, as soon as i get 2 frigging days off for coding!
2006/05/21 08:03:49 <macouno> kaito: In that case there's a tiny bounty for you.
2006/05/21 08:04:07 <kaito> oh i love choloclate bars!
2006/05/21 08:04:14 <kaito> *typo!
2006/05/21 08:04:26 <macouno> eh... that'd buy quite a few choloclate bars ;)
2006/05/21 08:04:38 <intrr> macouno: is it enough to buy ton a secretary?
2006/05/21 08:04:41 <kaito> first of all; i dont work for money!
2006/05/21 08:04:52 <kaito> that i already do too much!
2006/05/21 08:05:14 <macouno> kaito: I don't care... it's just me showing my appreciation... if you seriously don't want any... I'll come up with something else
2006/05/21 08:05:33 <kaito> so if a company is interested to support blender development, i usually advise them to hire blender devs instead :)
2006/05/21 08:05:58 <ideasman_42_> go over and make kaito some real meals so he dosent need to live off chockolate bars.
2006/05/21 08:05:59 <macouno> well that's why I offered a bounty... I don't really care whether the dev is you or someone else ;)
2006/05/21 08:06:02 <kaito> or hire artists
2006/05/21 08:06:40 <kaito> make a generous donation for orange2, when that gets clear ;)
2006/05/21 08:06:45 <macouno> ok
2006/05/21 08:07:00 <Gabio> buy 3 DVD ;)
2006/05/21 08:07:18 <kaito> redesign the blender wiki!
2006/05/21 08:07:26 <macouno> All I really want to know is "if you're actually going to" (no timeframe nessecary) so that I can remove the bounty from the message board... or say it's been claimed
2006/05/21 08:07:33 <lukep> Gabio, as they come by 2 it is a bit hard ;)
2006/05/21 08:07:38 <macouno> kaito: that can be aranged
2006/05/21 08:07:55 <kaito> macouno: i think i'm the right person to code the foundations for that, at least
2006/05/21 08:08:05 <kaito> it was in the specs of the render recode project
2006/05/21 08:08:08 * macouno knows enough now... thanks
2006/05/21 08:08:25 <kaito> i'm just falling again and again in the traps i dig myself :)
2006/05/21 08:08:32 <macouno> don't we all
2006/05/21 08:08:51 <kaito> "gosh, would be nice to have giant siggraph booth" <-
2006/05/21 08:09:09 <kaito> and what happens? DARN! it's there!
2006/05/21 08:09:09 <DripStone> hi, kaito
2006/05/21 08:09:22 <macouno> But seriously if you need some web work done on Wiki or similar... lemme know (don't have a great deal of time) I make a living doing webstuff so it shouldn't be too hard
2006/05/21 08:09:23 <DripStone> what excatly time at your place
2006/05/21 08:09:57 <kaito> macouno: talk to inkvlek when he's in, there's aspects in wiki that needs work
2006/05/21 08:10:14 <kaito> especially nagivation stuff, and overall structure... the dev section is messy
2006/05/21 08:10:18 <macouno> I remember almost getting involved in the blender.org site but I remember B@rt never actually made me a sandbox :P
2006/05/21 08:10:20 <DripStone> by the way, hope not interrupt you
2006/05/21 08:10:27 <macouno> kaito: ok will do
2006/05/21 08:10:37 <kaito> DripStone: 16:08
2006/05/21 08:10:47 <macouno> probably have a look when working on sod
2006/05/21 08:11:37 <intrr> DripStone: chinese government blocks access to ntp servers?
2006/05/21 08:11:39 <intrr> ;-)
2006/05/21 08:11:42 * macouno will butt out of meeting time now ;)
2006/05/21 08:12:01 <DripStone> intrr, net?
2006/05/21 08:12:08 <DripStone> intrr, ntp?
2006/05/21 08:12:22 <DripStone> about time zone, intrr?
2006/05/21 08:12:26 <intrr> DripStone: Network Time Protocol (Internet, RFC 1119/1305)
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2006/05/21 08:12:36 <DripStone> okay, intrr
2006/05/21 08:12:41 <intrr> oh, your question was about time zones, ok. because you asked for 'exact time'...
2006/05/21 08:12:47 <halley> Hush.
2006/05/21 08:13:08 <halley> No agenda?
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2006/05/21 08:14:30 <DripStone> intrr, i am intresting about kaito. when i will get sleep at 2:00 am, i find him on line, and never see him before that time. So I think my 2:00am is his 7:00. This is why I ask that.
2006/05/21 08:14:53 <intrr> DripStone: no, time goes into the future to the east.
2006/05/21 08:15:16 <intrr> (kaito is from holland)
2006/05/21 08:15:30 <halley> lukep, any plans for macintel official build? I've posted a .dmg of a build I did which seems to work fine. I tried to make release/Makefile make a dmg instead of a tarball but don't have the command right.
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2006/05/21 08:16:02 <DripStone> intrr, I know that, but I am not so familiar with geography and history ;)
2006/05/21 08:16:18 <intrr> DripStone: ok :) well, more likely, your 7:00am is his 2:00am.
2006/05/21 08:16:24 <kaito> DripStone: the amount of email attention i get forces me to communicate 3-5 hours per day, i usually start with that before dropping in in irc :)
2006/05/21 08:16:38 <DripStone> ;) intrr
2006/05/21 08:16:56 <lukep> i cannot make official build without comp to build and test. so another coder will have to take that, till i buy one
2006/05/21 08:17:09 <DripStone> kaito, I will send mine
2006/05/21 08:17:20 <lukep> halley, build is not the problem, testing is
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2006/05/21 08:17:55 <halley> What tests are usually run against a build? The only thing I didn't build was game engine (I never do on Linux either).
2006/05/21 08:18:06 <DripStone> kaito, just kiding, and what is comp?
2006/05/21 08:18:35 <lukep> halley there is a standard test suite, and game engine is needed :(
2006/05/21 08:18:56 <lukep> in fact there is 2 one for blender, one for bullet
2006/05/21 08:19:11 <kaito> erh... lets check for meeting topics i'd say!
2006/05/21 08:19:28 <halley> I asked if there was an agenda before starting to blab.
2006/05/21 08:19:38 <ideasman_42_> review editmode select group?
2006/05/21 08:19:56 <halley> lukep, where is the standard test suite, and is it automatable? I had once made a small automated test suite for rendering only.
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2006/05/21 08:20:24 <kaito> originally, i intended meetings for decisions and actions... not for discussions or reviews, these are typically first to be done on the maillist, and can happen here anytime
2006/05/21 08:20:31 <intrr> halley: blender meeting agendas are special, they're always created *after* the meetings :)
2006/05/21 08:20:42 <joeedh> :)
2006/05/21 08:21:07 <lukep> halley, not really
2006/05/21 08:21:10 <halley> kaito, agreed, except for all the people who never find each other during their normal irc hours.
2006/05/21 08:21:15 <kaito> i'm afraid we didn't proceed really since last week... everyones waiting for me to finish render stuff, and then we move to release modus
2006/05/21 08:21:41 <schlaile> Scene render in sequence editor?
2006/05/21 08:21:48 <kaito> yep like that
2006/05/21 08:21:52 <joeedh> anyone going to create the meetings note page? I'll do if no one else is.
2006/05/21 08:22:03 <kaito> it's just a couple of days of work... :)
2006/05/21 08:22:58 <kaito> so; are there topics people want to have feedback on?
2006/05/21 08:23:05 <kaito> or actions to define?
2006/05/21 08:23:20 <kaito> (apart from bugracker and patches work!)
2006/05/21 08:23:29 <joeedh> Plugin system.
2006/05/21 08:23:46 <kaito> is there a design proposal for it?
2006/05/21 08:24:07 <Ammusionist> Would this be a bad place to ask about a particular Mesh Modifier?
2006/05/21 08:24:08 <joeedh> I wrote and submitted a patch for so plugins can back-link to blender functions on windows.
2006/05/21 08:24:29 <gsrb3d> wiki policy (== bureaucratic steps, unable to edit things, and register is a joke)
2006/05/21 08:24:31 <joeedh> I'd like to know if the current system is going to be kept, or if work on a new design is needed.
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2006/05/21 08:24:49 <kaito> i wouldnt mind a much better design
2006/05/21 08:25:04 <kaito> joeedh: i think your patch was approved even, and waiting for commit
2006/05/21 08:25:17 <kaito> it was windows related, so i didnt follow it :)
2006/05/21 08:26:18 <schlaile> I'd appreciate some help in testing sequencer and documenting for release. (Don't know if http://peter.schlaile.de/blender/sequencer/ is enough...)
2006/05/21 08:26:24 <joeedh> kaito: it is limited in some ways. really, for advanced plugins you need support for custom UIs, which means exposing/wrapping the ui functions. is this something to consider *after* the Grand Event Refactor?
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2006/05/21 08:27:50 <kaito> joeedh: yeah, UI level plugins isnt easy now, or it should be via python
2006/05/21 08:28:56 <joeedh> I've actually fully implemented node shader plugins, only it uses the current plugin system, which I'm not sure is a good thing.
2006/05/21 08:29:00 <kaito> well; since theres no real decisions/actions, we can do a discussion session on the ideas as proposed; with as topics "selection editmesh design", the "plugin system" and peters sequence docs?
2006/05/21 08:29:01 <Gabio> schlaile: I'm testing right now
2006/05/21 08:29:17 <kaito> how'bout that?
2006/05/21 08:29:59 <ideasman_42_> sounds good to me :)
2006/05/21 08:30:03 <schlaile> ok.
2006/05/21 08:30:07 <joeedh> that sounds good.
2006/05/21 08:30:36 <joeedh> I'll do the meeting notes, unless someone else was planning to?
2006/05/21 08:30:43 --- kaito has changed the topic to: Meeting time; three discussion topics 1) editmode select groups 2) plugin system 3) sequencer docs
2006/05/21 08:31:44 <kaito> ideasman_42_: poke!
2006/05/21 08:31:58 <ideasman_42_> Yeppers. want meto explain/>
2006/05/21 08:32:21 <ideasman_42_> Editmode selection is something I have needed for a long time. and done in python before..
2006/05/21 08:32:53 <ideasman_42_> But I added in C recently as "Select Grouped" vert/edges/faces (its context sensitive)
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2006/05/21 08:33:15 <ideasman_42_> Basicaly it selects more v/f/e based on the existing selection.
2006/05/21 08:33:19 <kaito> i thought briggs added it?
2006/05/21 08:33:26 <Gabio> schlaile: so ffmpeg wasn't intended for windows platform right?
2006/05/21 08:33:36 <kaito> Gabio: on topic please
2006/05/21 08:33:48 <ideasman_42_> hah. are we discussion the same thing. crap its late for me..
2006/05/21 08:33:50 <kaito> oops; the topic isnt clear :)
2006/05/21 08:34:00 --- kaito has changed the topic to: Meeting time; three discussion topics 1) editmode select groups
2006/05/21 08:34:03 <kaito> so!
2006/05/21 08:34:13 <ideasman_42_> kaito, you saied the "Sekect Group" needed review..
2006/05/21 08:34:33 <kaito> yes, the implementation is a bit weak, and functionality difficult
2006/05/21 08:34:58 <kaito> luckily the first crashes were found & fixed :)
2006/05/21 08:35:14 <ideasman_42_> select group - editmode crash?
2006/05/21 08:35:31 <kaito> no, the extension added in editmesh struct to store selections
2006/05/21 08:35:48 <ideasman_42_> ahh that. wep it introduced a few bugs
2006/05/21 08:35:55 <kaito> thats cumbersome stuff making things more complex than i would do
2006/05/21 08:36:23 <ideasman_42_> a lot of people contrive models that have easy loop select, but fo architectual models you cant do that- Fo for eg. select co-planer, select co-normal, select same area, select same material.
2006/05/21 08:37:12 <ideasman_42_> Since there all besed on the initial selection it makes it easy to say- select faces from 2 walls. then select Grouped-> coplaner,. and both walls are selected
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2006/05/21 08:37:29 <kaito> that is just an operation
2006/05/21 08:38:07 <ideasman_42_> kaito, I dont follow..
2006/05/21 08:38:11 <Briggs> lo all
2006/05/21 08:38:16 <ideasman_42_> hi Briggs
2006/05/21 08:38:19 <joeedh> Briggs! you can explain it!
2006/05/21 08:38:20 <kaito> i thought the selection storage was to be able to first select a group of vertices X, then a collection Y, and then a tool using X and Y as inputs
2006/05/21 08:39:01 <Briggs> joeedh, yikes!
2006/05/21 08:39:06 <kaito> what you describe is a single selection (2 faces) resulting in extending the selection based on 'co planar'
2006/05/21 08:39:09 <joeedh> kaito: imagine a tool that seleects a patch based on vertex ordering. e.g. it goes from vert 1, to 2, to 3, to 4, following where you selected.
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2006/05/21 08:39:19 <ideasman_42_> kaito, yep. but thats Brigg's new select linked list stuff.
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2006/05/21 08:39:29 <kaito> eeek!
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2006/05/21 08:39:43 <ideasman_42_> kaito, select group dosent even use the new Selection stuff
2006/05/21 08:39:54 * kaito holds breath if wavk made it
2006/05/21 08:40:15 <wavk> hey kaito!! made what?
2006/05/21 08:40:20 <kaito> in this channel!
2006/05/21 08:40:31 <wavk> :D hehe yeah it's been a while
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2006/05/21 08:40:34 <kaito> j/k... meeting time :)
2006/05/21 08:40:44 <ideasman_42_> be more clear, "Editmode Select Group" is unrelated to brigg's new "Editmode selection list"
2006/05/21 08:40:49 <joeedh> oh I thought we were talking about brigg's new selection list stuff.
2006/05/21 08:40:52 <kaito> ideasman_42_: well, a 'select all co-planar' is an OK feature
2006/05/21 08:40:53 <joeedh> ok.
2006/05/21 08:41:03 <kaito> joeedh: yes i also thought that
2006/05/21 08:41:19 <kaito> ideasman_42_: whats the prob?
2006/05/21 08:41:21 <intrr> select co-planar has been in iblender for years </plug>
2006/05/21 08:41:37 * kaito shoos intrr back in his underground cave
2006/05/21 08:41:39 <ideasman_42_> kaito, I need to add a "fuzzyness" value somewhere in the UI
2006/05/21 08:41:52 <intrr> kaito: why? just because I try to help? :)
2006/05/21 08:41:57 <ideasman_42_> so same area/normal/co-planer have a limit variable.
2006/05/21 08:42:43 <ideasman_42_> The mesh tools panel could be re-worked a bit to include it.
2006/05/21 08:42:51 <kaito> ideasman_42_: our tools settings buttons are really in need for restructure yes
2006/05/21 08:43:23 <kaito> theyre very confusing with all options now...
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2006/05/21 08:44:07 <ideasman_42_> If its going to be done before release thats fine, otherwise it might be good to push away the big extrude button for some extra space
2006/05/21 08:44:12 <kaito> ideasman_42_: but, adding one more confusing button wont kill blender :)
2006/05/21 08:44:45 <kaito> 'co planar threshold' or 'select threshold' if you have more similar tools
2006/05/21 08:45:01 <joeedh> I'm confused: where exactly is this select coplanier tool?
2006/05/21 08:45:07 <ideasman_42_> Yep. select threshold soundws good-
2006/05/21 08:45:12 <kaito> not in blender yet joeedh
2006/05/21 08:45:13 <ideasman_42_> Shift+G in editmode
2006/05/21 08:45:18 <kaito> oh it is?
2006/05/21 08:45:21 <ideasman_42_> yep it is :/
2006/05/21 08:45:25 * kaito didnt check :)
2006/05/21 08:45:38 <ideasman_42_> You can select same edge length and stuff
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2006/05/21 08:46:10 <ideasman_42_> at the moment Im just using the remove doubles limit
2006/05/21 08:46:21 <Briggs> ack
2006/05/21 08:46:44 <kaito> "this button has an interesting value" button
2006/05/21 08:48:09 <ideasman_42_> kaito, I assumed that would be messy to leave that way. would be nice to have some kind of more generic threshold, so python tools could use it also
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2006/05/21 08:48:47 <joeedh> eh? a generic threshold? I'd rather use float popups for python scripts :S
2006/05/21 08:48:53 <Briggs> generic settings being used for specific tools is strange to me.
2006/05/21 08:49:08 <kaito> you can even add a number slider in a pupup menu
2006/05/21 08:49:22 <kaito> the menu items are just button types
2006/05/21 08:49:44 <ideasman_42_> hah. is that realy an option? it would be kinda cool
2006/05/21 08:50:05 <kaito> so the shift+g menu can show three options, and 1 float
2006/05/21 08:50:20 <kaito> there might be probs with 'enter'... need to check
2006/05/21 08:50:37 <kaito> (enter on float value then makes menu go away)
2006/05/21 08:50:58 <ideasman_42_> Oki. Im not too fussed about the finer points for events ATM..
2006/05/21 08:51:54 <kaito> the other simple thing could be a fourth item in shift+g called "set threshold" popping up a number()
2006/05/21 08:52:02 <kaito> not very elegant, but simple to code
2006/05/21 08:52:18 <ideasman_42_> kaito, thats what Hos has done. and im not fond of it.
2006/05/21 08:52:39 <ideasman_42_> breaks up the workflow and means you have to make sure the falues your working with are right,
2006/05/21 08:52:45 <kaito> i know; we need smarter toolbox style things
2006/05/21 08:53:04 <kaito> thats part of the mythical 'general tools api' :)
2006/05/21 08:53:35 <ideasman_42_> pitty prokens not here- he did some stuff with the toolbox
2006/05/21 08:53:38 <kaito> i'd say; dont worry now, and live with stupid limits in blender
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2006/05/21 08:53:40 <ideasman_42_> Broken*
2006/05/21 08:54:06 --- Ammusionist is now known as Ammusionist[A]
2006/05/21 08:54:09 <kaito> you mix up two different topics too; discussion is not about select groups, but about UI limitations :)
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2006/05/21 08:55:00 <ideasman_42_> Yep. thats the main issue with select groups.. that theres no UI :)
2006/05/21 08:55:13 <Hos> I'm confused
2006/05/21 08:55:28 <ideasman_42_> kaito, atm Im just using PupMenu. is it possible to add buttons to a menu that way?
2006/05/21 08:55:37 <kaito> ideasman_42_: nopes
2006/05/21 08:55:47 <joeedh> well, I'm going to call this topic in the notes "UI & Toolbox Issues (was Editmesh Select Group).
2006/05/21 08:56:01 <ideasman_42_> Hos, didnt you add select sharp edges?
2006/05/21 08:56:18 <Hos> yes, works fine here
2006/05/21 08:56:43 <ideasman_42_> yeah. it works ok. just the UI Is clunky, not your fault
2006/05/21 08:57:02 <Hos> I find the default gives me what I want 98% of the time
2006/05/21 08:57:21 <kaito> ideasman_42_: i think that clunkyness is ok for now, unless you want to dig in core interface coding
2006/05/21 08:57:36 <joeedh> we could extend pupmenu. make it handle submenus and things like float buttons.
2006/05/21 08:57:46 <Hos> is this about using mouse to interactively choose angle?
2006/05/21 08:58:12 <ideasman_42_> Hos, didnt you need to set the angle in a seperate menu item?
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2006/05/21 08:58:45 <Hos> ideasman_42_: it just does the little popup for angle
2006/05/21 08:59:07 <ideasman_42_> apart of the problem is that popuups are WAY to easy t cancel
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2006/05/21 08:59:28 <Hos> ok, sure, that can be annoying
2006/05/21 08:59:29 <ideasman_42_> you drag the mouse to set the value and go backl to click oK and whoops, its gone :/
2006/05/21 09:00:24 <ideasman_42_> So to conclude. Can I make some room for a threshold value? Maybe Hos's function could use that also,
2006/05/21 09:00:36 <UnNamed> going out while dragging could disable the removal until the pointer goes over it again
2006/05/21 09:01:32 <ideasman_42_> Before there was PupBlock with multiple float input. it seemed about 1 in 3 chance Id cancel the input by mistake each time it ran.
2006/05/21 09:01:34 <intrr> ideasman_42_: that's a long standing issue, yeah. in iblender, I corrected it by simply increasing the 'magic area' around popups.
2006/05/21 09:02:07 --- wavk has changed the topic to:
2006/05/21 09:02:11 <kaito> its the dragging itself that needs to be smarter
2006/05/21 09:02:13 <ideasman_42_> a good solution could be to make the menu go away if the mouse moves AWAY from the popup- for 30pixels.
2006/05/21 09:02:27 <kaito> uuh... topic gone :)
2006/05/21 09:02:32 <wavk> oooooops sorry, I don't know this software ;)
2006/05/21 09:02:40 * wavk is very ashamed don't mind me
2006/05/21 09:03:01 <kaito> i think we can move to next now?
2006/05/21 09:03:19 <ideasman_42_> well is there a decission? extra value in mesh tools is ok?
2006/05/21 09:03:21 * antont looks around
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2006/05/21 09:03:43 <kaito> ideasman_42_: i am fine with extra menu or button in panel
2006/05/21 09:04:07 <ideasman_42_> okay. will look into it... next :)
2006/05/21 09:04:13 <kaito> and the UI itself should be tackled too; but that's better to not discuss lengthy now :)
2006/05/21 09:04:20 --- kaito has changed the topic to: Meeting time 2) plug-in architecture
2006/05/21 09:06:28 <joeedh> I've gotten node shaders working with plugins. however, the current plugin system isn't the best, and node shader plugins arn't much more then texture plugins without a "Lamp" node of some kind.
2006/05/21 09:06:47 <kaito> joeedh: we talked before about possibility to use python for UI, and find way to use python to extend with c plugin api?
2006/05/21 09:07:11 <kaito> that way we only have to maintain a single api
2006/05/21 09:07:18 <joeedh> kaito: that might be better.
2006/05/21 09:07:40 <kaito> but i havent thought of how to implement such methods...
2006/05/21 09:07:47 <UnNamed> would that cover fixing the python ui code?
2006/05/21 09:07:57 <kaito> quite so i guess
2006/05/21 09:08:11 <joeedh> I'm not particularly happy with the system as it is, which is why I havn't submitted a patch. More design work is needed.
2006/05/21 09:08:21 <lukep> for plug-ins one thing which lack is a register and load at launch mecanism
2006/05/21 09:08:41 <kaito> another idea is to use blender 'sdna' methods to export structs to plugins dynamically
2006/05/21 09:09:19 <lukep> such mechanism would allow to "blend" plug-ins in UI more seamlessly
2006/05/21 09:09:21 <kaito> so you can read in C code structs both on plugin side as on blender side, and they can change dynamically
2006/05/21 09:10:26 <kaito> lukep: if 'register' is what programs do like gimp or phoshop... then i'm afraid that takes hours!
2006/05/21 09:10:41 <kaito> i never understood this startup delay
2006/05/21 09:10:58 <kaito> "registering plugins" wait... wait... wait... :)
2006/05/21 09:11:02 <intrr> indeed
2006/05/21 09:11:10 <brecht> the plugins in gimp run in a separate process due too the GPL
2006/05/21 09:11:13 <brecht> *to
2006/05/21 09:11:40 <lukep> kaito, that could be faster
2006/05/21 09:11:50 <kaito> aah, and did that help gimp? (are there commercial plugins?)
2006/05/21 09:12:01 <joeedh> brecht: which is one reason to use C python extensions to pynodes rather then the plugin system.
2006/05/21 09:12:30 <kaito> yeah for example; if we extend via python we also bypass gpl
2006/05/21 09:12:51 <joeedh> and we already have a script registering system :)
2006/05/21 09:12:53 <kaito> although that seems to be an edge case :)
2006/05/21 09:12:55 <reimpell> I'm not sure a lawyer would think the same way
2006/05/21 09:13:19 <kaito> well; python scripts for blender can be non-gpl
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2006/05/21 09:13:22 <UnNamed> there are no commercial plugins that i know
2006/05/21 09:13:47 <UnNamed> kaito: i keep on seriously doubting about the py case... they run same process
2006/05/21 09:14:17 <reimpell> kaito, yes, is there a final judgement already?
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2006/05/21 09:15:26 <kaito> not that i know of, i only know for sure that python scripts are legally OK to be non-gpl
2006/05/21 09:15:46 <UnNamed> kaito: who said so?
2006/05/21 09:15:47 <reimpell> If the BPy interface would be LGPL, you could use a commercial plugin as long as you willing to provide the object code
2006/05/21 09:15:59 <kaito> UnNamed: the FSF in their faq
2006/05/21 09:16:14 <reimpell> kaito, thanks for the reference
2006/05/21 09:16:14 <UnNamed> kaito: again, i found nothing about that in the faq
2006/05/21 09:16:37 <kaito> well its years ago i tried to sort this out for sure
2006/05/21 09:16:57 <kaito> maybe its on the python site?
2006/05/21 09:17:36 <kaito> a script is same as an image rendered in blender, afaik
2006/05/21 09:17:47 <kaito> it is creative content
2006/05/21 09:17:57 <kaito> same as a .blend file
2006/05/21 09:18:25 <antont> so the main issue with the plugin arch is solved?-)
2006/05/21 09:18:27 <kaito> i dont mind people trying to get that aspect secured again though
2006/05/21 09:18:30 <UnNamed> kaito: uh? it is code
2006/05/21 09:18:43 <reimpell> I'm sure there is a faq entry on the python site that allows you to use python itself for a commercial project
2006/05/21 09:19:04 <reimpell> but the issue here is that you are using a GPL'ed BPy api
2006/05/21 09:19:05 <kaito> python script != the gpl code of python
2006/05/21 09:19:12 <UnNamed> kaito: no idea who or what made you think .py file is same than .blend
2006/05/21 09:19:42 <UnNamed> kaito: that is something else
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2006/05/21 09:19:49 <reimpell> and therefore you have a connection between blender resp. BPy (GPL) and your py code, hence the gpl applies to your py code
2006/05/21 09:19:54 <antont> reimpell: i think the fact that it is an API stops GPL from spreading over .. making a bpy script is not modifying blender code, it is using it
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2006/05/21 09:20:07 <antont> but IANAL
2006/05/21 09:20:17 <antont> am more interested in the tech issues regarding the topic :)
2006/05/21 09:20:20 <reimpell> antont, the api issue would stop the LGPL, not the GPL
2006/05/21 09:20:25 <UnNamed> antont: that would apply to C then too :]
2006/05/21 09:20:28 <joeedh> hrm, what about http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL ?
2006/05/21 09:20:42 <intrr> IANAL sounds like my in-house sextoy software.
2006/05/21 09:20:53 <Briggs> intrr, whoah
2006/05/21 09:20:54 <UnNamed> joeedh: you are calling gpl things
2006/05/21 09:20:57 <joeedh> o.O
2006/05/21 09:21:03 <UnNamed> joeedh: blender things
2006/05/21 09:21:04 <reimpell> antont, you're also not allowed to use the GPLed MySQL api without making your program GPL
2006/05/21 09:21:12 <antont> oh
2006/05/21 09:21:13 <joeedh> UnNamed: what?
2006/05/21 09:21:31 <UnNamed> joeedh: "ignore the interpreter"
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2006/05/21 09:22:00 <joeedh> UnNamed: that section seems to say you cannot use python as an intermediary to bypass the GPL.
2006/05/21 09:22:08 <joeedh> that's why I pasted it.
2006/05/21 09:22:16 <kaito> yes, but the py script itself is OK then
2006/05/21 09:22:20 <reimpell> joeedh, thanks for the link, it clearly states that py-scripts have to be GPL compatible
2006/05/21 09:22:21 <UnNamed> joeedh: aah, the "however"
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2006/05/21 09:22:38 * antont is surprised again
2006/05/21 09:22:38 <joeedh> reimpell: no it doesn't. it states that C extension moduels have to be.
2006/05/21 09:22:41 <UnNamed> joeedh: sorry, thanks
2006/05/21 09:22:51 <antont> i have thought so many times that i got gpl but it always gets me instead
2006/05/21 09:22:55 <reimpell> "However, when the interpreter is extended to provide "bindings" to other facilities (often, but not necessarily, libraries), the interpreted program is effectively linked to the facilities"
2006/05/21 09:23:19 <reimpell> So you "link" against BPy
2006/05/21 09:23:41 <antont> can we LGPL bpy?-)
2006/05/21 09:23:41 <reimpell> Therefore your code has to be GPL (as BPy is GPL)
2006/05/21 09:23:43 <UnNamed> kaito: if someone wants to bypass all this, leave them do the job, it is possible
2006/05/21 09:23:44 * kaito only recalls the first part of this FSF fq :)
2006/05/21 09:24:17 <UnNamed> antont: do the following: author of commercial creates stub, and makes his plugins work with that out of process / shared mem / socket / whatever system
2006/05/21 09:24:47 <antont> uh
2006/05/21 09:24:53 <antont> why?
2006/05/21 09:24:57 <antont> i mean
2006/05/21 09:25:07 <reimpell> LGPL would not attract commercial plugins either, as nobody would be pleased to provide his object code...
2006/05/21 09:25:16 <antont> if we can decide the licensing that suits us, i think that is better than tech workarounds :)
2006/05/21 09:25:17 <kaito> eeh... this statement is very dubious, an interpreter writtin in GPL by definition involves using GPL "bindings"
2006/05/21 09:26:13 <reimpell> kaito, no it's totally clear: If you "use" the interpreter (the interpreter interpretes a _separate_ program that runs on its own), then the GPL does not apply
2006/05/21 09:26:25 <reimpell> But this is not the case here
2006/05/21 09:26:51 <reimpell> in our case the interpreter "links" to another program
2006/05/21 09:26:52 <kaito> but how can you ever define with is "other facilities"
2006/05/21 09:27:05 <kaito> are python modules "other" ?
2006/05/21 09:27:21 <ascotan> but the faq seem to imply that if you include the 'blender' module which is under GPL the script become implict GPL licensed
2006/05/21 09:27:33 <ascotan> see the above question
2006/05/21 09:27:35 <reimpell> We provide a "binding" to GPLed Blender
2006/05/21 09:28:13 <UnNamed> kaito: what license is used for python modules?
2006/05/21 09:28:38 <kaito> afaik all our distributed ones are GPL or bsd
2006/05/21 09:28:48 <UnNamed> kaito: python official ones are not gpl, but compatible
2006/05/21 09:29:21 <UnNamed> kaito: blender python ones, gpl
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2006/05/21 09:29:57 <antont> http://www.python.org/psf/license.html says tho: "There is no GPL-like "copyleft" restriction. Distributing binary-only versions of Python, modified or not, is allowed. There is no requirement to release any of your source code. You can also write extension modules for Python and provide them only in binary form." (but it is somehow still GPL compatible, whatever that means)
2006/05/21 09:30:28 <UnNamed> antont: yeah, that talks about "os" as in "import os"
2006/05/21 09:30:36 <ascotan> python uses it's own license
2006/05/21 09:31:04 <reimpell> engage a lawyer and also make your own licence
2006/05/21 09:31:23 <kaito> yeah, this is horrible complex :)
2006/05/21 09:31:51 <kaito> i'm not much interested now to put energy in allowing commercial vendors to sell blender extensions though
2006/05/21 09:31:52 <antont> but do i get it right, that kaito wants blender to work so that plugins / scripts would not have to be GPLd?
2006/05/21 09:32:01 <antont> aha ok so not :)
2006/05/21 09:32:09 <UnNamed> kaito: well, i said they can do that and you do not have to spend energy
2006/05/21 09:32:24 <kaito> well, i always thought py scripts were creative creations like .blends :)
2006/05/21 09:32:43 <kaito> but as soon as it uses a blender module, its gpl :/
2006/05/21 09:32:44 <UnNamed> kaito: they can write the stub that is GPL and uses the bypass methods (and also they spend the lawyer time making sure the bypass are valid)
2006/05/21 09:32:55 <joeedh> apparently since the extension module links to python (which links to blender) it's considered to be linking with blender.
2006/05/21 09:33:04 <DripStone> kaito, do you hope that everything with blender is free?
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2006/05/21 09:33:18 <reimpell> written programs are not creative creations, see the judgements agains EA
2006/05/21 09:33:28 <kaito> but i bet you can run a python instance in other process as blender, and then IP data around :)
2006/05/21 09:33:34 <UnNamed> and then we can move to something else
2006/05/21 09:34:08 <antont> kaito: a bpy script can not do anything without using the Blender module, so they are always GPLd it seems. but it is not a problem for an artists who does not want to publish his code .. they just publish the artwork and dont share the code if they dont want. like some dont publish blends
2006/05/21 09:34:55 <kaito> oki; but if company X decides to sell a blender exporter with their format, they have to gpl it
2006/05/21 09:34:59 --- UnNamed has changed the topic to: Meeting time 2) plug-in architecture .... 3) ???
2006/05/21 09:35:05 <UnNamed> kaito: no
2006/05/21 09:35:07 <antont> 'always' not including that workaround unnamed pointed out
2006/05/21 09:35:27 <kaito> UnNamed: i mean a blender python exporter
2006/05/21 09:35:31 <UnNamed> kaito: they have to release the stub, that talks with the binary only thing via sockets, for example
2006/05/21 09:35:39 <intrr> my god.
2006/05/21 09:35:51 <ascotan> antont: yes i think that's the case - it would be like linking to PIL module or somthing that uses GPL
2006/05/21 09:35:53 <UnNamed> 3) ?
2006/05/21 09:35:54 <intrr> if it's so easy to bypass these restrictions anyway, why are they even there? to complicate peoples' lives because they are too easy anyway?
2006/05/21 09:35:56 <kaito> ok ok; i drop the topic :)
2006/05/21 09:36:12 <reimpell> UnNamed, there is no final judgement about such "workarounds"
2006/05/21 09:36:18 <schlaile> Can I wake up? ;-)
2006/05/21 09:36:26 <intrr> all this GPL stuff probably wouldn't stand a single court judgement anyway.
2006/05/21 09:36:33 <reimpell> UnNamed, they would most probably not work (e.g. NVidia and ATI binary drivers)
2006/05/21 09:36:36 <UnNamed> reimpell: yah... but they ball is in the side of them with their layers
2006/05/21 09:36:36 <antont> so if that is desireable, it is better to change to license so companies dont need to make stupid workarounds. but i hope the topic is dropped now too, Ton already said he does not want to put energy into that now
2006/05/21 09:36:55 <UnNamed> reimpell: that is workareounded cos the users is the one linking
2006/05/21 09:37:01 <kaito> joeedh: apart from UI access, is there other plugin issues we can work on?
2006/05/21 09:37:05 <antont> (i hope that we could get to the actual topics regarding api / plugins :)
2006/05/21 09:37:12 <kaito> lukep mentioned pre-loading
2006/05/21 09:37:13 <reimpell> intrr, it did already several times
2006/05/21 09:37:14 <UnNamed> reimpell: and cos linus did some silly declarations, iirc
2006/05/21 09:38:14 <UnNamed> intrr: if it does not hold in court... it goes full kaboom and then it is full copyright infringement ;]
2006/05/21 09:38:15 <joeedh> kaito: no, looks like node plugins would better as C extensions to pynodes.
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2006/05/21 09:38:38 <kaito> joeedh: and can we think of making that generic?
2006/05/21 09:38:46 <UnNamed> intrr: it has hold in court, including german ones i think, and other just decided to avoid court
2006/05/21 09:38:57 <intrr> UnNamed: ok. let's drop the topic now :)
2006/05/21 09:39:36 <UnNamed> joeedh: does that mean c coders have to learn py trickery to get things rolling?
2006/05/21 09:39:44 <kaito> summarizing; we could stick to python UI access only, and look at nice way for C plugins to integrate on python too
2006/05/21 09:39:56 <joeedh> kaito: I suppose we could make a set of standard macros, to make interacting with the python api easier :S
2006/05/21 09:40:11 <antont> kaito: keeping in mind that the proper py UI access should be done first..
2006/05/21 09:40:25 <joeedh> Joseph Gilbert is working on that, actually.
2006/05/21 09:40:35 <kaito> antont: as option, since it should run in background too
2006/05/21 09:40:46 <kaito> all plugins should run without ui
2006/05/21 09:40:59 <lukep> kaito, not sure py UI is right solution but seems simpler indeed
2006/05/21 09:41:21 <kaito> this could be a nice design project for someone :)
2006/05/21 09:41:43 <antont> kaito: yah, i just meant that the current way with Draw etc. modules is not good - would be better to have the Blender UI elements wrapped .. but yah that is the tool api thing i guess
2006/05/21 09:41:54 <Eleaf> hmm
2006/05/21 09:41:54 <lukep> best solution would be something like intefacebuilder code
2006/05/21 09:41:55 <antont> did someone already wrap Panels for bpy?
2006/05/21 09:42:15 --- kaito has changed the topic to: Meeting time 3) Sequence doc review
2006/05/21 09:42:18 <joeedh> antont: joe gilbert is going to. along with curve widgets.
2006/05/21 09:42:21 <kaito> lets do last topic now
2006/05/21 09:42:24 <antont> ok cool
2006/05/21 09:42:27 <kaito> http://peter.schlaile.de/blender/sequencer/
2006/05/21 09:42:37 <kaito> peter made docs and asked for us checking it
2006/05/21 09:42:55 <ascotan> antont: its waiting on event refator (whenever that is)
2006/05/21 09:43:08 <kaito> schlaile: ack, no nice diagrams and pictures yet! :P
2006/05/21 09:43:42 <intrr> kaito: concerning nice diagrams and pictures, I have a question for you after the meeting if you have 2 minutes time.
2006/05/21 09:43:54 <schlaile> Yeah. I'll add them. Anything else (style, my bad english etc.)?
2006/05/21 09:43:59 * kaito notes; 2 minutes for intrr
2006/05/21 09:44:43 <kaito> it looks quite complete; but need to decide where to leave it
2006/05/21 09:44:43 <intrr> kaito: thanks
2006/05/21 09:44:55 <schlaile> Release notes?
2006/05/21 09:45:02 * antont tries to recall the heavy sequencer usage with ED
2006/05/21 09:45:13 <kaito> yeah, but release notes are mostly for end-using
2006/05/21 09:45:16 <joeedh> maybe we should move it to the wiki.
2006/05/21 09:45:21 <antont> iirc i only made some UI enchancement remarks, dont have the notebook here no
2006/05/21 09:45:25 <antont> w
2006/05/21 09:45:32 <kaito> we can put the real tech coder docs in wiki
2006/05/21 09:45:44 <kaito> unless its general architecture for new coders etc
2006/05/21 09:46:05 <schlaile> OK. That means: seperate summery for release notes?
2006/05/21 09:46:19 <schlaile> (Already tried to split into introduction and tech parts...)
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2006/05/21 09:46:42 <kaito> yeah, is diffucult i see....
2006/05/21 09:46:43 <antont> there was something funny with how sequencer effects behaved when there were many overlapping strips
2006/05/21 09:46:51 <joeedh> should be put the end-user parts in the cms with the other release notes?
2006/05/21 09:47:15 <kaito> the 'color correction' is clearly enduser stuff
2006/05/21 09:47:20 <antont> slikdigit: hi, we are reviewing Peter's notes at http://peter.schlaile.de/blender/sequencer/ .. and i am trying to recall seq issues we had
2006/05/21 09:47:45 <slikdigit> hmm, I think most if not all issues were old problems with the sequencer...
2006/05/21 09:48:15 <antont> yah i was mostly happy with it
2006/05/21 09:48:17 <slikdigit> audio strips from a mixdown are one frame shorter than video strips from the same file
2006/05/21 09:48:19 <Eleaf> hey!
2006/05/21 09:48:30 <Eleaf> I need to 'set' the last frame of a blend file using python
2006/05/21 09:48:40 <kaito> frameserver doc is also nice read
2006/05/21 09:48:47 <Eleaf> the Blender.Set command can only change the "current frame" it seems (curframe)
2006/05/21 09:48:59 <schlaile> On some other parts of the HP, old problems are still mentioned and the hope of a ffmpeg integration etc, maybe should be cleaned up also.
2006/05/21 09:49:04 <antont> Eleaf: err, there is no last frame afaik
2006/05/21 09:49:08 <Eleaf> is there a way to set the last frame?
2006/05/21 09:49:19 <Eleaf> antont, yes...
2006/05/21 09:49:36 <Eleaf> you can request it using Blender.Get('endframe')
2006/05/21 09:49:37 <joeedh> Eleaf: we're still in the meeting you know :)
2006/05/21 09:49:40 <antont> Eleaf: this is off-topic for the on-going meeting btw. but if you are talking about the framerange-to-be-rendered, it can be set via the things Render module gives you
2006/05/21 09:49:51 <Eleaf> sorry..
2006/05/21 09:50:23 <Eleaf> (nobody is here any other time than during a 'meeting', thanks though)
2006/05/21 09:50:23 <schlaile> slikdigit: audio strip mixdown problem: intrr, any ideas?
2006/05/21 09:50:35 <ideasman_42_> Eleaf, see blenderfarm script
2006/05/21 09:50:57 <slikdigit> well, It's not a new sequencer issue, it predates the patch... most do
2006/05/21 09:51:20 <kaito> peter; could you put this with pics in the blender wiki?
2006/05/21 09:51:44 <kaito> i can move the user part of text to the release logs myself then, saves you from learning typo3
2006/05/21 09:51:56 <kaito> (or ask a webmonkey for it)
2006/05/21 09:51:58 <schlaile> kaito: Haven't used blender wiki: account is the same as CVS?
2006/05/21 09:52:15 <kaito> it used to be; but not anymore afaik :/
2006/05/21 09:52:31 <kaito> dont know current status
2006/05/21 09:52:37 <joeedh> schlaie: just create an account and have someone enable write access for you.
2006/05/21 09:52:48 <kaito> who can do that?
2006/05/21 09:53:03 * kaito doesnt have wiki powers
2006/05/21 09:53:04 <joeedh> LetterRip can. and spiderworm, and jesterKing, and I think others (but can't remember the rest).
2006/05/21 09:53:39 <kaito> schlaile: but, very cool you docced things :)
2006/05/21 09:53:59 <kaito> only thing missing is enthusiast end-user marketing blah page!
2006/05/21 09:54:12 <kaito> "NOW WITH MORE POWER!
2006/05/21 09:54:23 <schlaile> ;-)
2006/05/21 09:54:31 <joeedh> schaile: join #blenderwiki, looks like spiderworm is there. he can get you set up.
2006/05/21 09:54:48 <antont> "You can write a simple HTTP-Server if you are drunk and it is 4 o'clock in the morning." :)
2006/05/21 09:55:01 <joeedh> :P
2006/05/21 09:55:19 <-- lordloki has quit ("Abandonando")
2006/05/21 09:55:43 * kaito gives schlaile a bottle of schnapps
2006/05/21 09:55:54 <kaito> tomorrow morning 9 am i want this http server!
2006/05/21 09:56:12 <schlaile> kaito: it is already in there ;-)
2006/05/21 09:56:18 * kaito always wanted to get rid of apache
2006/05/21 09:56:21 <schlaile> (Even without the use of alcoholics...)
2006/05/21 09:56:47 <joeedh> schlaile: if you join blenderwiki now, spiderworm can help you.
2006/05/21 09:57:04 <schlaile> I'm just switching to blenderwiki, will be back soon.
2006/05/21 09:57:09 <-- schlaile (n=peter@banspach.de) has left #blendercoders
2006/05/21 09:57:19 <joeedh> his irc client doesn't have tabs? :S
2006/05/21 09:57:33 --- kaito has changed the topic to: Sunday meetings: http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/SundayMeetingAgenda
2006/05/21 09:57:44 <halley> So it's over?
2006/05/21 09:57:44 * kaito thanks everyone for the patience!
2006/05/21 09:57:58 <kaito> yes, now we can discuss finnish music again!
2006/05/21 09:58:05 <halley> I'm looking for someone who can make a quick but useful animation-geometry script for me, paypal bounty involved. Probably an hour's work for those who know the blender python stuff.
2006/05/21 09:58:25 * kaito points at antont
2006/05/21 09:58:43 <joeedh> meeting notes at http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/SundayMeetingAgenda/May_21th_2006
2006/05/21 09:58:49 <kaito> intrr: clock started!
2006/05/21 09:58:56 <kaito> you can get 4 even!
2006/05/21 09:59:07 <intrr> kaito: can we do this in 10 minutes? I'm pretty involved currently
2006/05/21 09:59:22 <kaito> sure :)
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2006/05/21 09:59:38 <intrr> kaito: correction, we can do it now :)
2006/05/21 10:00:19 <antont> halley: i am certainly interested. as in, broke and that is my fav. type of work :)
2006/05/21 10:01:00 <halley> antont, I can /msg or make a side channel for us.
2006/05/21 10:01:09 <antont> ok good
2006/05/21 10:01:31 <-- kidux (i=opera@220.166.118.188) has left #blendercoders
2006/05/21 10:01:33 <ideasman_42_> halibut, make a side channel? Im interested but probably too buisy
2006/05/21 10:01:36 --> schlaile (n=peter@banspach.de) has joined #blendercoders
2006/05/21 10:02:02 <joeedh> schlaile: so you don't have tabs or multiple windows for different channels on your client?
2006/05/21 10:02:14 <ideasman_42_> halley, I mean!*
2006/05/21 10:03:13 <Hos> halley: I think channel #halleysownprivateidaho is free
2006/05/21 10:03:15 <schlaile> joeedh: I'm using a basic IRC-client.
2006/05/21 10:03:37 <schlaile> (running in newbie-mode)
2006/05/21 10:03:55 <ideasman_42_> Im in #halleysownprivateidaho
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2006/05/21 10:07:00 <satya> Hi, any developers of import scripts here?
2006/05/21 10:07:07 <ideasman_42_> yep-
2006/05/21 10:07:14 <joeedh> schlaile: well, you could try chatzilla. although it's "internal data" will occasionally die, requiring a restart of firefox (although I havn't got that since upgrading firefox, so it might be fixed).
2006/05/21 10:07:14 <Eleaf> ideasman_42_, ;)
2006/05/21 10:07:41 <satya> I need an import script that can import curve(IPO) data into blender
2006/05/21 10:08:03 <satya> I need which file format I should use to import data IPO into blender
2006/05/21 10:08:05 <ideasman_42_> okay, wheres the curve from?
2006/05/21 10:08:12 <ideasman_42_> BVH
2006/05/21 10:08:50 <satya> ideasman_42_, hi curve data comes form a dll, my dll wirtes the required ciuurve data into a file
2006/05/21 10:09:13 <ideasman_42_> could your dll write a BVH file/
2006/05/21 10:09:32 <satya> I want to import that file, so I needd that file to be in a foirmat that some import script use
2006/05/21 10:09:42 <satya> u mean .bvh file?
2006/05/21 10:09:47 <ideasman_42_> yep,
2006/05/21 10:09:54 <halley> ideasman_42_, antont is going to take a crack at it, but you're welcome to get involved. It's something I need for work today/tonight/tomorrow but there's some fun additions that can be polished later.
2006/05/21 10:10:07 <satya> I need to write my vc++ dll such that it gives the output as .bvh file format
2006/05/21 10:10:17 <satya> ideasman_42_, its possible, right?
2006/05/21 10:10:22 <ideasman_42_> halley, I have no idea what thisis abt, just interested,
2006/05/21 10:10:42 <ideasman_42_> satya, right- then import the bvh into blender
2006/05/21 10:10:50 <ideasman_42_> it makes the IPO's
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2006/05/21 10:11:02 <satya> bvh makes IPO great
2006/05/21 10:11:17 <satya> i need a sample .bvh file now
2006/05/21 10:11:31 <ideasman_42_> it could be overkill, but its worth using BVH bacause its used everywhere
2006/05/21 10:11:35 <satya> any idea where i can get some sample
2006/05/21 10:11:42 <ideasman_42_> I have 100's... well ~100
2006/05/21 10:11:48 <satya> overkill also can be used
2006/05/21 10:11:56 <satya> can ui share some sample files with me please
2006/05/21 10:11:59 <ideasman_42_> but you can easerly get them off then net
2006/05/21 10:12:13 <satya> ?????????
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2006/05/21 10:12:35 <ideasman_42_> use google. all mine ore from web sites
2006/05/21 10:12:45 <satya> fone, thank you
2006/05/21 10:12:46 <BeBraw> http://www.bvhfiles.com/
2006/05/21 10:12:56 <satya> *fine
2006/05/21 10:12:58 <ideasman_42_> right, there easy to find.
2006/05/21 10:13:07 <satya> ok
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2006/05/21 10:13:29 <ideasman_42_> look at the BVH exporter/importer also. (I wrote both, they need a bit of an update, but they work fine)
2006/05/21 10:13:45 <satya> ideasman_42_, I want make m,y knowledge in IPo tested quickly
2006/05/21 10:13:54 <satya> ok
2006/05/21 10:14:17 <ideasman_42_> in that case just export a set of points and make an IPO in blender with those points.
2006/05/21 10:14:34 <satya> ideasman_42_, how many interpolators(IPO) types are there in blender, 3 linear bezier and normal, right?
2006/05/21 10:14:34 <ideasman_42_> youll just need to read the blender API
2006/05/21 10:14:53 <ideasman_42_> think so..
2006/05/21 10:15:07 <ideasman_42_> I just used linear for bvh since it does a heap of points
2006/05/21 10:15:12 <satya> I dont to avoid writing new import script, cos I need to ship that too with my dll
2006/05/21 10:15:17 <satya> ok
2006/05/21 10:15:33 <satya> blender allows fractional curves , rigfht?
2006/05/21 10:15:37 <ideasman_42_> well, either way., if you do BVH you can avoid touching blenders innards
2006/05/21 10:15:43 <ideasman_42_> yep
2006/05/21 10:15:50 <ideasman_42_> its not frame locked
2006/05/21 10:15:55 <satya> fine
2006/05/21 10:16:11 <satya> one minute plz , lemme check if i need anything else
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2006/05/21 10:18:09 <satya> ideasman_42_, will these IPos use any other properties like tension, bias and so on, should I take care of these when useing bvh
2006/05/21 10:18:22 <ideasman_42_> nope
2006/05/21 10:18:30 <ideasman_42_> just points
2006/05/21 10:18:38 <ideasman_42_> 1 point per frame
2006/05/21 10:18:47 <satya> blender IPos doesnot have anyother properties
2006/05/21 10:18:55 <satya> so onme pint per frame
2006/05/21 10:18:55 <satya> ok
2006/05/21 10:19:04 <satya> thank you very much
2006/05/21 10:19:18 <Eleaf> hmm, Blender.Save isn't working for me.
2006/05/21 10:19:18 <ideasman_42_> blenders IPO's can do some fun stuff. Np
2006/05/21 10:19:28 <satya> ok
2006/05/21 10:19:41 <ideasman_42_> Eleaf, are you using the overwrite flag?
2006/05/21 10:19:43 <Eleaf> Blender.Save("test1.blend", overwrite=0)
2006/05/21 10:19:43 <Eleaf> it says syntax error right under Save
2006/05/21 10:19:49 <satya> bvhfile.com doesnot have any free files to downbload i suppose
2006/05/21 10:20:05 <ideasman_42_> satya, keep looking, theres lots
2006/05/21 10:20:15 <ideasman_42_> Eleaf, are you using Draw.Create()
2006/05/21 10:20:18 <satya> ideasman_42_, ok
2006/05/21 10:20:31 <satya> ideasman_42_, do you have exp writiong vc++ dlls?
2006/05/21 10:20:47 <Eleaf> ideasman_42_, no. I'm editing a blend file's properties without opening a UI.
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2006/05/21 10:21:18 <ideasman_42_> satya, nope, mainly python and a little C.
2006/05/21 10:21:27 <satya> ok
2006/05/21 10:21:45 <satya> ideasman_42_, we can write the ouptyput of a dll to be a .bvh file, right?
2006/05/21 10:21:54 <satya> ideasman_42_, just wanna make sure, any idea?
2006/05/21 10:22:01 <ideasman_42_> right
2006/05/21 10:22:30 <ideasman_42_> you only need like 3 bvh's to see how its done. theres docs on the filespec also
2006/05/21 10:22:54 <satya> filespec?
2006/05/21 10:22:55 <ideasman_42_> + you have some existing source references, shouldent be too hard
2006/05/21 10:23:00 <Eleaf> do you know what's wrong ideasman_42_ ? ;p
2006/05/21 10:23:14 <satya> ideasman_42_, but wher can i find all these
2006/05/21 10:23:15 <ideasman_42_> Eleaf, nope. used it a while back and it worked.
2006/05/21 10:23:29 <ideasman_42_> satya, google- realy take a look