<red_herring> dont even try telling me otherwise
<kbrooks> which is what xhr does
<erstazi> unless its done unobtrusively
<erstazi> which I do
<hexidigital> red_herring, keeb, you guys gong to be around in about an hour or so?
<hexidigital> s/gong/going
<red_herring> mhm
<erstazi> gong
<red_herring> well, if not ill backlog
<kbrooks> erstazi, unobstrustively ?
<erstazi> yes
<erstazi> read up on unobtrusive javascript
<kbrooks> erstazi, meaning?
<hexidigital> red_herring: i have a general programming question, but i have to run out quick.. i'll be back
<erstazi> I believe javascript is just an extra add on to the experience... just like css is
<kbrooks> erstazi, it is.
<erstazi> kbrooks, but most don't do it unobtrusively
<red_herring> hexidigital: k
<red_herring> well heres my philosophy
<red_herring> we keep building on old software
<red_herring> sayign "BLAH WE ALREADY HAVE XXX AND YYY WHY A NEW ZZZ"
<erstazi> exactly
<red_herring> we needed dynamic html
<red_herring> so we got javascript
<red_herring> we needed asyncrhonous js
<erstazi> xmlhttprequest has been there forever
<red_herring> so we got ajax
<red_herring> and its just become a huge mess
<erstazi> actually ajax is nothing
<erstazi> its a buzzword
<red_herring> erstazi: i know
<erstazi> xhr() has been in EMCAscript since 1.2 or such
<red_herring> but the concept started getting widely used
<erstazi> its nothing new
<erstazi> yes
<red_herring> anyways
<erstazi> and it saves bandwidth, server load
<red_herring> its grown complicated
<erstazi> I guess you can say that
<red_herring> and every time
<red_herring> we push the ceiling a little higher
<red_herring> only to find the next round we need to push it more
<erstazi> it takes a huge percentage of the load off a server
<erstazi> thats all I can say
<red_herring> why not start grounds up with a 100% fresh new idea that has much more potential
<red_herring> just 1 scripting language
<erstazi> red_herring, based on what?
<red_herring> fuck that
<red_herring> jsut 1 api
<red_herring> ANY scripting language
<red_herring> python ruby javascript even
<red_herring> just no html
<erstazi> xhtml isn't bad
<red_herring> well if you use a scripting language
<red_herring> you can make games in-browser
<erstazi> been done
<red_herring> you can make 3d envs inbrowser
<erstazi> dhtml
<keeb> any of you guys want an svn log parser written in PHP?
<red_herring> keeb: ihve yet to go through my svn logs....
<red_herring> erstazi: i know its been done
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<red_herring> but can you make a secondlife inside your browser?
<red_herring> its only basic 2d games tht can be played
<keeb> red_herring: with flash you can
<red_herring> adn dont evne TRY to tell me that dhtml is nearly as simple as ruby or python or lua or erlang or ANY otehr scripting language
<red_herring> keeb: no thats shockwave
<red_herring> and thats Highly proprietary
<keeb> red_herring: same thing
<keeb> (i know it isnt)
<red_herring> and still based around HTTP/HTML
<keeb> i dont understand why you're trying to get away from http/html
<red_herring> it kinda sucks
<red_herring> at the end of a transfer
<red_herring> the connection ends
<red_herring> streaming is a hack
<erstazi> I guess its called a hack
<keeb> i think different apps serve different purposes
<keeb> and hooking them together is the key, not redefining what the app should do
<erstazi> and there is open source flash
<red_herring> erstazi: gnash sucks wang chung
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<red_herring> plus theres the ability to work offline
<keeb> that's my view on it.
<red_herring> that theres no way anything http/html based can do
<erstazi> red_herring, so you have something better than http 1.1?
<erstazi> ind mind
<erstazi> s/ind/in
<red_herring> preexisting? no
<spasticteapot> Hmm.../join #wilug
<keeb> i think being able to create a life dashboard -- in whatever language you want
<spasticteapot> <pumplekin> I just swallowed a transistor
<red_herring> spasticteapot: im from chicago.
<keeb> is the next 'big' thing
<spasticteapot> red_herring: That was a typo.
<red_herring> life dashboard?
<red_herring> spasticteapot: k.
<keeb> yes
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<erstazi> red_herring, how would you implement it? offline?
<erstazi> the future is apps online
<erstazi> supposively
<erstazi> so getting "offline" would never happen
<red_herring> erstazi: not 100% of the time
<red_herring> i'd still like my writely files and writely when im on the train
<red_herring> not that i use writely
<red_herring> cuz javascript is slow
<keeb> think: blog photos music movies tv - integrated with a voip type thing accessible anywhere - 1 click access to anyone who cares
<keeb> completely customizable
<red_herring> keeb: mhm
<red_herring> see you'll tell me its all possible in DHTML
<keeb> yep
<red_herring> but it'll take you 1000 devs
<keeb> it is, because i've implemented it.
<red_herring> working for over a year
<keeb> what i just described
<keeb> is my house.
<red_herring> ?
<spasticteapot> FringeLicious: Are you here?
<keeb> from anywhere i can access all of that stuff, red_herring
<keeb> and stream it
<red_herring> keeb: as in you have a server running drupal?
<kbrooks> red_herring, why is HTML sucky
<keeb> red_herring: no, i use about 20 different technologies to get it done.
<kbrooks> red_herring, and HTTP too
<keeb> music = mpd
<keeb> tv/movies = jinzora
<red_herring> keeb: mhm
<red_herring> you still did use all their work
<keeb> blogging software = self created
<red_herring> and they still dont work together
<keeb> they sure do
<keeb> from a web browser anywhere in the world i can control what shows up on my projector
<red_herring> kbrooks: HTTP and HTML were built for single static webpages
<keeb> what the surround sound in my house is playing
<keeb> what photos are available on my gallery
<red_herring> and for serial connectins that close after the transport is finished
<keeb> and update my journal ;d
<red_herring> they've been added on to
<red_herring> its like macOS
<red_herring> MacOS7 was its primetime
<red_herring> erm
<red_herring> <7
<kbrooks> red_herring, and then suddenly
<red_herring> new technologies came out that MacOS was not built to handle
<kbrooks> all hell breaks loose
<red_herring> it could be done
<red_herring> but it wasnt designed for it
<red_herring> and os9 was a disaster
<red_herring> finally Apple decided to scratch the whole OS and start anew
<red_herring> what do we call that now? OSX
<kbrooks> osx is better than ever
<red_herring> what apple nerds heil as the greatest OS ever
<red_herring> why? Because they stopped hacking upon their old system
<red_herring> and moved on to a fresh start
<red_herring> os9 compatability was an afterthought
<red_herring> thats the way web3.0 should be
<red_herring> keeb: can you send an instant message to yoru server to tell it to play X music
<red_herring> or to stream something
<red_herring> or post a blog via AIM?
<yipe> wow, it's discoflux
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<red_herring> if i designed a protocol, it could be as easy to make a chat server using it than it would to make a content server
<yipe> the 50th of discord, pungenday
<red_herring> blah
<red_herring> thats just my opinion