<savetheWorld> RudyValencia: CNN has LITERALLYROFL dozens of web servers, They change their content as needed and hand it off to a tool which automatically updates all the servers, asynchronously
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<xybre> You don't think CNN.com uses a cms of some sort? You think that their reporters hand code the pages?
<savetheWorld> *lierally
<Dave2> RudyValencia, they don't edit the raw pages at all though. I guarantee that any structural modification is tested locally first.
<savetheWorld> *literally!
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<RudyValencia> /usr/bin/php is only for commandline scripts
<Karlprof> "validating, accessible CSS layouts hence Ajax CMS" - what on earth has CSS layouts got to do with AJAX?
<dmb> thanks
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<RudyValencia> fine, CNN was a bad example
<RudyValencia> what about sites like http://www.buildabear.com/ ??
<RudyValencia> surely they manually code every page of that site
<xybre> Rudy, you make my colon hurt.
* RudyValencia hands xybre a Fleet enema
<Dave2> RudyValencia, I doubt it.
<savetheWorld> RudyValencia: ever heard of load balancing?
<Dave2> I'm viewing the source, and that looks very generated to me
<RudyValencia> I've heard of it
<Karlprof> RudyValencia: If you care, even a little bit, about changes messing up a site, you use a CMS.
<Karlprof> I imagine they care.
<xybre> Make him stop :(
<RudyValencia> Karlprof: I already use MODx CMS (http://www.modxcms.com/)
<savetheWorld> xybre: why? You can't pay for stuff this good!
<RudyValencia> the only problem with my sites is the problem of changing IP addresses -_-
<xybre> They're coming to take me away ha ha!
<savetheWorld> BUILD A BEAR WORKSHOPS FON-348973568065274 (NET-208-1-36-0-1)
<savetheWorld> 208.1.36.0 - 208.1.36.255
<savetheWorld> they have an entire Class C subnet.
<xybre> :O
<savetheWorld> under sprint
<xybre> I want one
<RudyValencia> Tons of businesses get a Class C subnet
<RudyValencia> 1) I can't afford a static IP, 2) I'm not the one authorized to change telco services, 3) I'd need one IP for every box in my net
<savetheWorld> but they only have "one" internet facing server.....
<xybre> ......
<RudyValencia> Really? I'm sure they have an extranet or something
<xybre> Use subdomains for your boxes
* derfreakoo would be happy with a static IP
<savetheWorld> or virtual IP
<savetheWorld> any number of doamins can and do share a single IP
<xybre> Or heat up a frying pan on the stove and press your nose on it to give yourself psychic powers.
<RudyValencia> Do I need an IP for every box in my net?
<savetheWorld> no
<RudyValencia> Or can I have a NAT setup like I have now
<Simon-> IP allocation does not uses classes
<savetheWorld> You can use NAt
<RudyValencia> many LAN IPs > 1 static Internet IP
<RudyValencia> but it'd cost me more then
<savetheWorld> RudyValencia: No limit
* god_ <3s NAT. It's the way the world was meant to be.
* RudyValencia calls the telco
* savetheWorld tells god_ to get with the IPV6.. :-)
<savetheWorld> RudyValencia: the telco will require you to have a business class service with them
<savetheWorld> $$$$$
<god_> savetheWorld: God is American, therefore, IPv6 is a Bad Thing (TM)
<Karlprof> Wait
<Karlprof> Why can't he have a shared hosting service again?
<savetheWorld> Bad god_ !
<savetheWorld> Bad god_ ! No donut
<god_> Business class ISP = Residential class ISP * 1.5 + phone support
<sleeptyper> about Concorde, after the Paris accident: The first British Airways passenger flight took place on 11 September 2001, and was in the air during the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States.
* xybre is afraid of americans
* god_ &
<sleeptyper> spooky...
<Dave2> Karlprof, because apparently he doesn't want to have to edit then upload.
<tsp> hmm
<Karlprof> Dave2: So what's wrong with a shared hosting service with a vroot shell?
<Karlprof> He could use vim.
<Karlprof> Or something.
<Dave2> he doesn't want to use a shell, IIRC
<xybre> I want a shell, but not this guy. He wants .. to host his own site, on a dynamic ip, with multiple computers on his networkk functioning asdifferent domains.. from what I've been able to decipher..
<savetheWorld> Well, the rails are washed out north of town. We gotta head for higher ground
<Star-D> hey any dev getoo here around?
<Star-D> spb?
<savetheWorld> The bus is comin', gonna take us to the train. Looks like we'll be blessed with a little more rain,
<starshine> it's only a big deal to have a class C if you have a movable one.
<starshine> RudyValencia: NAT is your friend
<RudyValencia> Karlprof: I want to use my existing Windows apps to edit my site
<Karlprof> xybre: Could he not use something like http://www.no-ip.com/ or something?
<starshine> you only need one IP external
<RudyValencia> Karlprof: It's the cost that's a factor
<Karlprof> RudyValencia: They do free domains and everything.
<starshine> RudyValencia: there are a handful of texteditor type apps that will fetch edit and post via ftp
<Karlprof> Well, subdomains.
<xybre> Karlprof: he refuses to use subdomains
<RudyValencia> Karlprof: yes, but I'd have something like http://rudyvalencia.dyndnsprovider.com/ which looks ugly
<RudyValencia> Also, I have my own domains.
<RudyValencia> And I want my domains if possible.
* RudyValencia is on the phone with the telco
<Dave2> RudyValencia, seriously, just learn vim.
<RudyValencia> (maybe I might be able to get a static IP address)
<xybre> vim > *
<hrist> so vim > vim?
<Dave2> yes.
<Dave2> vim > vim.
<savetheWorld> He's stuck
<Dave2> vim is so awesome, it manages to be > itself.
<hrist> hehe, nice
<hrist> <3 vim
<savetheWorld> stuck in Folsom prison
<savetheWorld> And time keeps draggin on.
<Star-D> christel?
<savetheWorld> RudyValencia: Do you know Johnny Cash?
<Karlprof> RudyValencia: Hey, http://localhost/ isn't registered. Maybe if you set up Apache on your PC, and just tell people to go to http://localhost/? It's not as good as a .com, but it's close: try it and see how well it works for you...
<blackace> I killed a man in Reno, just to watch him die
<hrist> hehe Karlprof
<savetheWorld> I think Johnny's Lyrics are actually about Rudy.
<starshine> RudyValencia: there's a perfectly decent gvim for windows. use it :)
<savetheWorld> I'm going to Jackson.
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<xybre> Michael?
<Zete> Javacat
<Javacat_> Zete!!
<RudyValencia> Hey
<RudyValencia> I can get DSL with a static IP for $36.99/mo.
<Zete> my digital love ^_^
<RudyValencia> And it's the same speed and everything.
<Javacat_> :D
<RudyValencia> It's less than $40/mo.
<RudyValencia> I didn't realize it'd be that inexpensive.
<Zete> RudyValencia math genius
<RudyValencia> $31.99 + $5.99
<RudyValencia> well, actually $37.98 but still, under $40
<RudyValencia> :D
<Dave2> $0.99 more :O
<Dave2> YOU LIED
<Dave2> LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIED I SAHY
<Dave2> I also say say.
<RudyValencia> I miscalculated.
<RudyValencia> :D
<Javacat_> Zete: MINE TO!
<xybre> Fail
<RudyValencia> Still, $37.98 is under my goal of $40/mo
<Dave2> Yes, I do indeed fail.
<RudyValencia> hm, $25 setup :/
<RudyValencia> Also: "One domain name will be supported for all the addresses."
<RudyValencia> :/
<RudyValencia> that's no good
<RudyValencia> Unless they are referring to "reverse DNS".
* znx burps
<znx> 'cuse me
* Karlprof cries.
<savetheWorld> nope
<Dave2> it's not as if they can stop you having multiple domains pointing to your IP...
<savetheWorld> right
<ompaul> znx, far tooo much info
<Dave2> "OH MY GOD, A SERVICE WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER IS MAPPING THIS NAME TO OUR IP! WE MUST STOP THEM!"
<Zete> i have a weird feeling inside.. somewhere around chest.. where heart is..
<znx> ompaul: you should see what im sitting on at this very moment :O!
<RudyValencia> Are they referring to having only one reverse-DNS, or...?
<Karlprof> RudyValencia: Ask?
<RudyValencia> Well, I'm already off the phone with 'em
<xybre> znx is in love
<ompaul> znx, gladly
<xybre> Or has gas
<xybre> One of the two
<RudyValencia> I don't wanna call back
<ompaul> znx, I don't have to :)
<znx> xybre: does gas feel all warm inside .. ?
* znx shoggles himself
<Dave2> o_O
<Karlprof> znx: Depends how hot the curry last night was
<xybre> Hrm, depends on if it's chillia gas
<znx> Karlprof: vindaloo
<Karlprof> Then yes, gas does feel all warm inside
* znx lets one RIP
<znx> WOAH
* znx wafts
<RudyValencia> meh I'll just keep using my existing connection :/
<RudyValencia> it's not like I have to update my DNS every morning
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<RudyValencia> ah great my IP changed again
* RudyValencia thinks that the telco's f***ing with him
<Dave2> fail!
<xybre> 'he wants a static ip' 'hehe, punk kid, lets wiggle the ups cord'
<zinx> RudyValencia: you can get webhosting for $5 or less a month, and a domain for that much a year. if that's too expensive for you, stop yer b****ing :)
<RudyValencia> It's both cost and control
<Star-D> christel?
<RudyValencia> zinx: I want something affordable that I can directly edit
<sleeptyper> holy crapola, a Boeing 747-400 can reach MPG of 91 per passenger on overseas flights
<Karlprof> zinx: He wants to run his own server because he's got this weird idea that [writing things locally and then uploading them|running a localhost server for testing] is a bad thing.
<zinx> RudyValencia: "directly edit"?
<sleeptyper> 3.1L/100km/passenger - way better than any car
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<RudyValencia> Karlprof: Also, my applications don't support any other way of editing except saving to a local drive/letter-mapped network share
<Star-D> beu?
<zinx> sleeptyper: funny what happens when you *don't* want to spend more on gas
<Karlprof> Then... keep... (!) a local copy.
<sleeptyper> hehe
<zinx> RudyValencia: what applications are those?
<RudyValencia> Karlprof: Keeping a local copy is redundant.
<zinx> and why does it matter?
<Karlprof> AAARGH
<Karlprof> I give up.
<SpeedEvil> You need a local copy anyway.
<SpeedEvil> As backup.
<zinx> i'm pretty sure you can map ftp to a "drive letter"
<RudyValencia> Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver.
<zinx> RudyValencia: ok, i call BS
<sleeptyper> my car can go near if 4 people occupy it
<xybre> Dreamweaver?
<Star-D> hei i need gentoo dev anyone?
<xybre> You.. you.. HEATHEN
<RudyValencia> SpeedEvil: Why? I already backup my server to DVD every month.
<zinx> RudyValencia: if dreamweaver doesn't publish about a billion different ways, then i'll eat my hat
<SpeedEvil> sleeptyper: A car with one person in.
<RudyValencia> xybre: I only use Dreamweaver for its HTML editing pane
<xybre> Star-D: #gentoo-dev ?
<RudyValencia> (and filemanager)
<SpeedEvil> sleeptyper: My car gets 120MPG/passenger when full.
<xybre> RudyValencia: VIM
<sleeptyper> nice
<RudyValencia> Vim?
<Dave2> Vim!
<RudyValencia> having to press Insert anytime I want to edit a line?
<RudyValencia> :/
<RudyValencia> yuck
<zinx> RudyValencia: no offense, but the only things i see coming from you are excuses why you can't do <insert thing here>, and if that's all you've got, you're not going anywhere.
<Dave2> RudyValencia, no, pressing i.
<Dave2> or a
<Dave2> or o
<RudyValencia> still
<zinx> vim's a crappy editor
<xybre> ichange change thingesc:wq WIN
<Karlprof> <xybre> RudyValencia: VIM <--- Forget it. He's insane. Completely, flabbergastingly insane.
<Dave2> Modal editors are awesome
<xybre> Karlprof: I tried :(
<Karlprof> According to Firefox's spellchecker, "flabbergastingly" is a word but "spellchecker" isn't. Awesome.
<RudyValencia> Anything with a filemanager and a decent HTML view that provides autocompletion
<xybre> lol
<RudyValencia> I would use anything with a filemanager and autocompletion of common html tags/attributes.
<Karlprof> Why... why would one autocomplete HTML?
* beu eyes Star-D
* xybre touches beu
<RudyValencia> Well, it's faster
<xybre> #^$%&$%&&*#!!!
<Star-D> can you jion at #gentoo.pl and scare a bit reane ?
<xybre> Thats the only printable characters I can think of.
<zinx> because it's too hard to type "div" and "span" :D
<Star-D> rane*
<beu> xybre£*(&!*(£$
* beu beams
<Dave2> beams made me think of dreams made me think of my bad dream where I owned an iPod :(
* xybre suspects he's been outdone
<zinx> RudyValencia: stop getting hung up on the small implementation details and start getting a solution that actually works, even if it isn't the most fun to use :/
<Star-D> beu?
<xybre> Dave2: eww, what a horrid dream
<RudyValencia> Which is faster, typing out all of "<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="filename.css">" or "<link r[tab]"sty[tab]" ty[tab]"text/c[tab]" hr[tab]"filename.css">"?
<Dave2> xybre, indeed :(
<Dave2> RudyValencia, tab is an annoying key to hit
<RudyValencia> tabcomplete (for me, anyway) is faster than typing all that out
<zinx> RudyValencia: considering how little i have to type that, it doesn't matter :/
<xybre> RudyValencia: typing it manually, pressing the tab key in that situation takes a lot more time.
<Dave2> plus vim does auto completion
<Dave2> http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=610
<xybre> Yeah, I jsut copy/paste most of that stuf, or rails generates it for me
<RudyValencia> I've never seen it suggest "type=" when I type "ty"
<RudyValencia> (inside an HTML element)
<xybre> and vim does purty syntax coloring
<zinx> xybre: exactly
<Karlprof> RudyValencia: What's faster, typing "...", typing ".<tab>" or loading up a general-purpose blank template file (one should be in every webdesigner's arsenal) and going from there?
<RudyValencia> xybre: so does dreamweaver
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<xybre> And you can get nonmodal gui vim.
<zinx> in any case, this is another stupid detail
<Star-D> beu can you please ?
<zinx> which has almost no bearing on overall functionality
<xybre> RudyValencia: yeah, but unless you pirated it, you gave the developers incentive to create more of that garbage.
* RudyValencia got it at a yard sale
<xybre> Good save
<RudyValencia> I get a lot of my software from yard sales.
<RudyValencia> It's outdated, but it works.
<Dave2> RudyValencia, but you can't run Dreamweaver on a shell.
<Dave2> which was the whole point of suggesting vim in the first place
<RudyValencia> That's why I use Samba.
<xybre> And dreamweavre prodced horrible code.
<xybre> You know what
<RudyValencia> I don't use Dreamweaver's code
<RudyValencia> I use its HTML view to write my code
<Dave2> also I linked to the wrong link
<xybre> I cant take it anymore.
<RudyValencia> OK.
<xybre> Someone tell me when he stops so I can unignore him. Otherwise I'm going to spaz.
<Dave2> but the point is that vim does autocompletion
<zinx> heh
<RudyValencia> Forget about all that.
<Dave2> you can even define your own autocompletion.
<RudyValencia> I'll just... do what I've been doing.
<RudyValencia> Manually update my own dns records every time my IP address changes.
<Karlprof> Well, glad that's over and done with.
<Karlprof> Moving on...
<xybre> So Karlprof hows your day?
<RudyValencia> Since (apparently) there isn't a simple and free solution out there.
<RudyValencia> I give up.
<sensei> lol, this is where we spend 3 hours trying to come up with custom solutions for RudyValencia
<Karlprof> xybre: My day's been OK, thanks.
<Karlprof> xybre: First day back at school. 'Twas alright I guess. You?
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<Karlprof> (After the Easter holidays, I mean.)
* Javacat_ pokes Zete
<Zete> Javacat?
<Javacat_> :D
<Zete> brrr
<Zete> :(
<xybre> Karlprof: I'm aight, researching for writing these crazy photo-processing scripts in ruby that I need to write for my work
<Javacat_> :(
<RudyValencia> sensei: I've wasted 3 hrs. of everyone's time
* Dave2 turns those frowns upside down:
<Dave2> ":("
<sensei> RudyValencia: Go for three more; )
<RudyValencia> I do wish that it were easier to manage my own sites.
<RudyValencia> (rather, the DNS for 'em, anyway)
<sensei> cp mv rm vi.. four tools to rule them all
<RudyValencia> sensei: I was referring to DNS management
<Karlprof> xybre: What're you trying to do?
<sensei> Didn't know that then, did I ;)
<Javacat_> Zete: Did you know that I got a mac?!!!!
<Zete> i know now
<Star-D> ok any alive gentoo dev around?
<Javacat_> :D
<Dave2> sensei, vi sucks.
<RudyValencia> sensei: I have been looking for something that can update my IP address in everydns every time my IP changes
* Star-D cut zete out of irc
<Dave2> Javacat_: ew mac :(
<Zete> Star-D?
<Javacat_> :o
<sensei> RudyValencia: That's what you get when you're too cheap for hosting ;)
<Javacat_> nooooooooo...
<Dave2> I have a mac but that doesn't count because it's 11 years old
<RudyValencia> sensei: what?
* Javacat_ looks at the empty space in irc where his beautiful love used to be :(
<sensei> What what ?
<Star-D> Zete coze you always says bullshit.
<RudyValencia> oh
* Javacat_ slaps srt
<Javacat_> bah
<RudyValencia> sensei: how is self-hosting "too cheap"?
<Karlprof> RudyValencia: while (1) { if (GetOwnIPAddress() != OldIpAddress) { UpdateIPAddress(GetOwnIPAddress); OldIpAddress = GetOwnIPAddress; } }
* sensei pats Javacat_
<Karlprof> Work from that.
* Javacat_ slaps Star-D with Dave2
<sensei> RudyValencia: You don't host yourself, that breaks the sole definition of the word
<Star-D> goat!
<xybre> Karlprof: well, I'm building a complete system for this client, and this piece of it is to take user-uploaded files from their user directory, via http, ftp, or afp, mv them to their data directory on another disk (don't ask) and process them images into theumbnails and watermarked images (keeping the originals unchanged)
<Zete> Star-D, i haven't said any bullshit for more than a week
<Star-D> sure...
<RudyValencia> sensei: how is "running my own server" cheap?
<RudyValencia> rather
<xybre> sensei: don't go into the light!
<sensei> xybre: Good point :)
<sensei> RudyValencia: nm
<Karlprof> Ah, xybre. Well, on the bright side, atleast you don't have to do it with C or something.
<Star-D> Zete shitting thats all...
* RudyValencia runs his own webserver
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<xybre> Karlprof: the low-level stuf would be easier, it would be faster, but the higher level stuf (the actual image processing) not so much. Then again I'm going to have to use Image Magick, and Ruby, and compiled "magic number" libraries, which are all written in C... so it's all C code somewhere.
<xybre> sensei: thank you :D
<Karlprof> xybre: Maybe it's just that C scares me
<Karlprof> Annnyway
<RudyValencia> sensei: basically, I would rather operate a "free" (outside of DSL and electricity) server of my own than having to pay someone else to maintain a server for me
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<greghunt> ugh, http://www.thewvsr.com/adsvsreality.htm makes me feel sick
<greghunt> hrm, i think i may be getting hour+ pings again
<zinx> RudyValencia: then get a static IP
<xybre> Karlprof: I did C++ for a little bit, it doesn't scare me. Java, now that scares me.
<xybre> zinx, don't go into the light!
<RudyValencia> zinx: I will
<Karlprof> The JRE is infuriatingly bloated and rubbish. :(
<zinx> RudyValencia: most DSL/cable providers offer them with business packages, if nothing else. but guess what, that "free" DSL/cable is going to cost you a lot more.
<sensei> RudyValencia: If you go for colo no one manages it for you, although it's obviously not free
<zinx> RudyValencia: than $5/mo + $5/yr
<RudyValencia> I can pay $40/mo for DSL
<zinx> RudyValencia: you'll be paying a lot more for a business line, probably.
<zinx> the phone company likes to rape business customers :)
<RudyValencia> I found out that a static IP-based package is $37.98/mo with a one-time $25 fee
<sensei> RudyValencia: On the other hand.. if you can't afford proper hosting, your customers are obviously not paying enough, and they have no right in whining if their site is down for an hour or two
<xybre> No, stop, he knows all this. This whole chanel has gone over it all since this morning!
<zinx> RudyValencia: that's no so bad, congrats
<RudyValencia> sensei: it's only my sites, I don't have any clients.
<sensei> xybre: haha, damn I know what you mean
* xybre bashes face on concrete
<xybre> Brain hurt!
* sensei massages xybre's brain
* xybre relaxes
<RudyValencia> sensei: I run my server mostly for my own stuff..
* xybre doesn't do it when he wants to go to it
<sensei> RudyValencia: Ok
<RudyValencia> It's mostly that I'm fed up with my connection changing IPs when it bounces.
<RudyValencia> therefore I have decided to get a static IP instead.
<MidnightRider> that just makes it easy for the dirty four-lettered agencies to get to you
<sensei> Some DNS providers have support for easy/eazydns
* xybre falls over
<sensei> ez? Whatever :)
<sensei> WHY AM I DOING THIS??: (
<sensei> Couldn't care less really! Wth is wrong with me
<sensei> /ignore