[3/7/2010 2:39:35 PM] FirstAidKite: do you usually accept criticism on stuff
[3/7/2010 3:05:20 PM] FirstAidKite: cause I had a few suggestions for your poetry stuff and junk
[3/7/2010 11:42:24 PM] gotshaton: about what?
[3/7/2010 11:42:49 PM] FirstAidKite: well basically lemme provide a bit of backstory
[3/7/2010 11:42:57 PM] gotshaton: k
[3/7/2010 11:43:15 PM] FirstAidKite: hbomberguy linked us to your video about your poetry book. then all of us got bored and started repeating "buy my book!" from that show The Critic for about 5 pages of chats
[3/7/2010 11:43:32 PM] gotshaton: ...okay
[3/7/2010 11:44:20 PM] FirstAidKite: then we got back to you actually advertising your book. then we got sidetracked by ulillillia's book (which is excellent and you should buy it). then we got back to your book. I read a couple of the poems and I just wanted to ask, how much feedback do you receive on them? like, do you have an editor or anyone in particular you go to to say "hey read these are they okay"?
[3/7/2010 11:45:04 PM] gotshaton: I am going to poetry school, are you talking about my old poetry from my book or something more recent?
[3/7/2010 11:46:28 PM] FirstAidKite: Well both technically I guess. one of them was from your book, the other you said you'd written more recently (2009), and maybe I'm just being cranky out of illness but both of them bugged me in the same way high school literary journals bug me: word salads or "dark and gloomy" word salads.
[3/7/2010 11:46:44 PM] gotshaton: ....okay
[3/7/2010 11:46:54 PM] gotshaton: what do you mean in particular?
[3/7/2010 11:47:05 PM] FirstAidKite: lemme go find the one from the book and I'll show you what I mean
[3/7/2010 11:47:54 PM] FirstAidKite: before that, just tell me. did you write the actual description for the book that's up on all those sites and is that description anywhere on the book itself?
[3/7/2010 11:48:13 PM] gotshaton: why does it matter?
[3/7/2010 11:48:55 PM] FirstAidKite: because the extra quotation mark in the beginning and the typo on "ranging" are bugging me :P
[3/7/2010 11:49:43 PM] gotshaton: extra quotation mark?
[3/7/2010 11:49:57 PM] FirstAidKite: yeah
[3/7/2010 11:50:03 PM] gotshaton: there's no extra quotation
[3/7/2010 11:50:06 PM] gotshaton: there's a missing one
[3/7/2010 11:50:09 PM] gotshaton: and that's not on the cover
[3/7/2010 11:50:15 PM] gotshaton: anyway
[3/7/2010 11:50:17 PM] FirstAidKite: well missing one then
[3/7/2010 11:50:21 PM] gotshaton: it would be nice if you'd tell me what you're talking about
[3/7/2010 11:50:48 PM] FirstAidKite: that's besides the point, I check my friend's papers a ton and I've become accustomed to picking up typographical errors. pet peeve.
[3/7/2010 11:50:58 PM] gotshaton: yeah ok
[3/7/2010 11:51:43 PM] FirstAidKite: anyway I wanted to ask this then
http://books.google.com/books?id=15UwfwNq0agC&printsec=frontcover&dq=skinner+sanguine+shoes&source=bl&ots=BIJbkccsTt&sig=Afap4YAe0-vYr2AbxdaiWYlX6l8&hl=en&ei=UYGUS6uiOY3CsQPH4NT8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=&f=false
page 7, always flat. what is the meaning of the poem? what does it mean to you, what message were you trying to convey? I'm interested because I want to know if I was anywhere within the vicinity of understanding it
[3/7/2010 11:52:14 PM] gotshaton: the poem is about a failed relationship, I don't know what's vague about it
[3/7/2010 11:54:21 PM] FirstAidKite: I understand the first stanza is meant to imply you're attempting to give up on something that will just keep coming back. I understand the last stanza implies some amount of pressure due to the situation, what with the obvious threat of the gallows and such, but for the life of me I don't get the middle two stanzas.
[3/7/2010 11:54:28 PM] gotshaton: okay
[3/7/2010 11:54:36 PM] gotshaton: sorry you don't get it? it's a poem I wrote in 2002
[3/7/2010 11:55:34 PM] gotshaton: i'm not really sure what's even vague
[3/7/2010 11:55:42 PM] gotshaton: they're images, I think they're pretty specific images to boot
[3/7/2010 11:56:47 PM] FirstAidKite: the second stanza refers to his hair but I'm not sure I'm understanding how red curls are at all related to worn playing cards, and the third stanza in general almost contradicts what you state in the first one, your love being a lukewarm soda set out to rot as opposed to something you toss away and keep coming back to. I'm also confused about the format of the whole thing, it doesn't really feel like it flows too well when reading or speaking it. it has no sense of rhythm to it, unless that was the point?
[3/7/2010 11:57:24 PM] gotshaton: let me again state
[3/7/2010 11:57:27 PM] gotshaton: I wrote that poem in 2002
[3/7/2010 11:57:30 PM] gotshaton: that's almost 10 years ago
[3/7/2010 11:57:41 PM] gotshaton: I wouldn't write it now like I did then
[3/7/2010 11:57:43 PM] FirstAidKite: alright, I'll criticize the one you wrote last year
[3/7/2010 11:57:56 PM] gotshaton: also the person in the poem is a girl
[3/7/2010 11:57:57 PM] gotshaton: but ok
[3/7/2010 11:59:04 PM] FirstAidKite: only reason I bring that one up in particular is because it seemed like you were using it as a selling point for the book in your blog
[3/7/2010 11:59:17 PM] gotshaton: it was the first poem in the book
[3/7/2010 11:59:28 PM] FirstAidKite: http://www.imagesfromapoet.com/poetry/sweat-is-her-favorite-drink/ am I allowed to criticize this one or is it too old?
[3/7/2010 11:59:37 PM] gotshaton: I already did a rewrite of that
[3/7/2010 11:59:41 PM] gotshaton: it's not the final product
[3/8/2010 12:00:22 AM] FirstAidKite: so away with things like "They were sleep" and "I must death eventually" and the generally awkward gloomy descriptions of things?
[3/8/2010 12:00:36 AM] gotshaton: no
[3/8/2010 12:00:43 AM] gotshaton: they were sleep is still in there
[3/8/2010 12:00:48 AM] gotshaton: I must death is still in there
[3/8/2010 12:01:00 AM] gotshaton: the mother and father stuff is gone, the intro is different
[3/8/2010 12:01:03 AM] gotshaton: line breaks are shifted
[3/8/2010 12:01:12 AM] FirstAidKite: how about this one http://www.imagesfromapoet.com/poetry/if-you-pick-up-your-phone/
[3/8/2010 12:01:39 AM] gotshaton: if you wanna critique that poem, feel free to but it's a poem based on flarf, so it's going to be impossible for you to tell me what to do with it
[3/8/2010 12:02:29 AM] FirstAidKite: ah yes flarf
[3/8/2010 12:02:48 AM] gotshaton: anything else?
[3/8/2010 12:03:02 AM] FirstAidKite: never quite understood flarf
[3/8/2010 12:03:33 AM] FirstAidKite: more of a fan of more concrete poetry but hey if a picture of the mona lisa with a mustache drawn on an a french sex joke underneath is art then who'm I to judge :P
[3/8/2010 12:03:42 AM] gotshaton: it was actually a phone message google translated into that and it made me laugh hysterically because it sounded like a spy movie
[3/8/2010 12:03:53 AM] gotshaton: how many workshops have you taken?
[3/8/2010 12:05:46 AM | Edited 12:06:01 AM] FirstAidKite: I studied poetry a ton throughout high school. not much one for writing it, not a very good writer. no work ethic. ignoring the poetic way ulillillia writes in his book I've been on an epic poem spree lately, thinking of rereading the divine comedy again cause I've got a course next semester that's devoted entirely to it, but ignoring all of that I'm not one for writing poetry. it never comes out right, I'm never interested in writing it unless I'm trying something funny
[3/8/2010 12:06:04 AM] gotshaton: ah
[3/8/2010 12:06:20 AM] gotshaton: well I'm pretty pleased people still care enough about me to intentionally spread info about me to mock me
[3/8/2010 12:06:24 AM] gotshaton: so that's great
[3/8/2010 12:07:42 AM] FirstAidKite: was gonna join up with my high school literary journal as well as my college one but both are filled to the brim with "brooding" and "gloomy" overly moody poetry of people attempting to emulate the works of poe but only managing to write the word "dark" over and over again with various synonyms used
[3/8/2010 12:08:24 AM] gotshaton: yeah ok then
[3/8/2010 12:08:49 AM] gotshaton: anything else or are we done here?
[3/8/2010 12:08:55 AM] FirstAidKite: I can pretty much summarize the content of my high school lit journal during senior year with "O woe is me, I'm at a loss, I've lost my poor meatball, all that remains is the sauce."
[3/8/2010 12:09:40 AM] FirstAidKite: seriously, one of the poems was a dark and gloomy poor-poe imitator about not getting his order correct at a fast food joint
[3/8/2010 12:10:07 AM] gotshaton: are you going to answer my question or are you just gonna keep typing stuff?
[3/8/2010 12:11:17 AM] FirstAidKite: regardless all I wanted to do was maybe suggest bringing your stuff over to creative convention, I only lurk there but it's generally a pretty good place for getting non-biased opinions and tips on stuff. as a bonus, no blister. I love writing as much as you do (assuming you like writing at all), I just can't put forth the effort to finish anything so maybe you'd be better off with it?
[3/8/2010 12:11:37 AM] gotshaton: I already post poems in the poetry thread and get critique there
[3/8/2010 12:11:40 AM] gotshaton: so yeah
[3/8/2010 12:11:52 AM] gotshaton: also I go to school, I'm finishing up a thesis, and am getting critique there
[3/8/2010 12:12:02 AM] FirstAidKite: what, did you change your name or something? I havent noticed
[3/8/2010 12:12:05 AM] gotshaton: nope
[3/8/2010 12:12:12 AM] gotshaton: hold on, I'll even send you a link to the last critique I got
[3/8/2010 12:12:45 AM] gotshaton: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3251014&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=5#post373460623
[3/8/2010 12:13:53 AM] FirstAidKite: oh no wonder, it was story. hardly ever read through his posts all the way :P
[3/8/2010 12:14:37 AM] gotshaton: he's not the only one who critiqued that poem
[3/8/2010 12:14:46 AM] gotshaton: plus I've been posting since the 2k8 thread
[3/8/2010 12:16:08 AM] FirstAidKite: either way I just figured you'd like criticism, bad or good, since you're actually selling this stuff. I don't want to come off as being some sort of lousy git who only cares about making you mad (hbomberguy, blister), just think of it as a guy who really really loves a good poem giving some tips.
[3/8/2010 12:16:45 AM] gotshaton: I'm pretty sure you're not a good person to give me critique
[3/8/2010 12:16:51 AM] gotshaton: not because you don't know what you're talking about
[3/8/2010 12:17:00 AM] gotshaton: but because you seem to think that my poetry is "gloomy" or whatever
[3/8/2010 12:17:07 AM] FirstAidKite: didn't say that
[3/8/2010 12:17:16 AM] FirstAidKite: I said my high school lit journals were gloomy
[3/8/2010 12:17:21 AM] FirstAidKite: and my college lit journal is too
[3/8/2010 12:17:24 AM] gotshaton: both of them bugged me in the same way high school literary journals bug me: word salads or "dark and gloomy" word salads.
[3/8/2010 12:17:35 AM] gotshaton: you called my poems "word salads or "dark and gloomy" word salads."
[3/8/2010 12:18:12 AM] FirstAidKite: ah sorry for the misunderstanding. those poems bugged me because they felt like word salads which reminded me of the dark and gloomy word salads my lit journals were like.
[3/8/2010 12:19:04 AM] gotshaton: if you think that about those poems, you and I don't see eye to eye on poetics.
[3/8/2010 12:19:08 AM] FirstAidKite: though you yourself said there is "dark" poetry in that book too, no? I guess dark and gloomy can kinda go hand in hand maybe
[3/8/2010 12:19:17 AM] gotshaton: not an insult, but my poetry is mostly based on the surrealist movement
[3/8/2010 12:19:35 AM] gotshaton: so saying it's word salad may be appropriate in your mind, but I've never been told that my metaphors don't make sense by anyone in class
[3/8/2010 12:19:48 AM] gotshaton: and I've had vocal critics who have hated my work
[3/8/2010 12:20:00 AM] gotshaton: I don't mind if you dislike it, but I don't think you and I have the same poetics
[3/8/2010 12:22:26 AM] gotshaton: uh also I wanna say you're probably right about some shit not making sense
[3/8/2010 12:22:32 AM] gotshaton: I don't think I'm a particularly great poet
[3/8/2010 12:25:46 AM] FirstAidKite: there were a lot of words here but I decided to get rid of them. to keep matters short, I've read a lot of bad poetry. the poems I've read by you are far from the worst but they still felt like word salads, a case of writing down something and just using dollar words to spice it up. that's fine in some cases but doing it too much leads to something like "At lightning speed, poets will sew together the polyester threads of human existence until nothing is left but a remnant of a pocket, blistered shut with the heat of their fingertips,"
I mean, I haven't read the entirety of the poem that that line is from, but what does it even mean? what value does it truly have? is it just fancy filler used to make people go "ooh" or does it actually mean something?
[3/8/2010 12:25:47 AM] gotshaton: well I'm going to sleep
[3/8/2010 12:25:54 AM] gotshaton: haha great timing
[3/8/2010 12:25:57 AM] gotshaton: dude
[3/8/2010 12:25:58 AM] gotshaton: please
[3/8/2010 12:25:59 AM] gotshaton: stop
[3/8/2010 12:26:02 AM] gotshaton: critiquing poems from 2004
[3/8/2010 12:26:05 AM] gotshaton: it's 6 years ago
[3/8/2010 12:26:08 AM] FirstAidKite: upi
[3/8/2010 12:26:11 AM] FirstAidKite: whoops
[3/8/2010 12:26:26 AM] FirstAidKite: finger moved over one button too far and hit enter instead of the button i wanted to press :P
[3/8/2010 12:26:38 AM] gotshaton: the poem actually makes sense, obviously
[3/8/2010 12:26:43 AM] gotshaton: it is about poets fucking shit up
[3/8/2010 12:26:53 AM] FirstAidKite: only reason I'm doing this is cause you're selling them. think of it this way.
[3/8/2010 12:27:09 AM] gotshaton: no, the only reason you're doing this is because hbomb dude is a creeper
[3/8/2010 12:27:13 AM] gotshaton: you all are talking about me
[3/8/2010 12:27:15 AM] gotshaton: it's weird and creepy
[3/8/2010 12:27:19 AM] gotshaton: I wish LP would just stop
[3/8/2010 12:27:37 AM] gotshaton: I just honestly only responded to you b.c. I wanted to know what you wanted
[3/8/2010 12:27:47 AM] FirstAidKite: oh come on what did LP do THIS time.
[3/8/2010 12:27:49 AM] gotshaton: but it just makes me uncomforable that people are still talking about me
[3/8/2010 12:28:12 AM] gotshaton: isn't where you were talking about me a chat full of LPers?
[3/8/2010 12:28:17 AM] FirstAidKite: no
[3/8/2010 12:28:24 AM] FirstAidKite: its a chat where people play worms, trackmania, and d&d
[3/8/2010 12:28:32 AM] gotshaton: are those threads in LP?
[3/8/2010 12:28:47 AM] gotshaton: aren't both you and hbomb LPers?
[3/8/2010 12:28:55 AM] FirstAidKite: the worms thread is but only 4-6 of those people play worms anymore and hbomb's not one of them
[3/8/2010 12:28:56 AM] gotshaton: isn't it only relevant that I posted that video because of LP?
[3/8/2010 12:28:58 AM] FirstAidKite: he doesnt even go to that thread
[3/8/2010 12:29:03 AM] gotshaton: I mean, why even bring me up?
[3/8/2010 12:29:05 AM] gotshaton: seriously
[3/8/2010 12:29:11 AM] gotshaton: be honest, why did you even contact me?
[3/8/2010 12:29:37 AM] FirstAidKite: because I wanted to ask you what some of those poems meant
[3/8/2010 12:29:55 AM] FirstAidKite: because I may have criticized them, sure, but if I didn't even get the meaning behind them then there goes most of the criticism. woosh.
[3/8/2010 12:30:13 AM] gotshaton: k cool
[3/8/2010 12:30:16 AM] gotshaton: is that all you gotta say?
[3/8/2010 12:31:47 AM] FirstAidKite: you decided to get a bunch of poems out there and put them in a book. poems you wrote. poems you slaved over to write. I'm just wondering at this point if you didn't like those early poems why you'd put them in a book to sell and offer to autograph for extra cash
[3/8/2010 12:32:22 AM] gotshaton: I didn't slave over anything. I like the poems. they're not my best work. it's a collection I put together in 2005. I'm having it reprinted.
[3/8/2010 12:32:28 AM] gotshaton: that's about all I can say.
[3/8/2010 12:32:32 AM] gotshaton: I'm working on a second book.
[3/8/2010 12:32:40 AM] gotshaton: one that's more recent, obviously.
[3/8/2010 12:32:49 AM] gotshaton: I put it for sale because people have asked to buy it.
[3/8/2010 12:33:00 AM] gotshaton: people have bought a bunch of copies.
[3/8/2010 12:33:32 AM] gotshaton: do I need to validate myself any more to some random stranger on the internet who's probably just going to c&p this to his other idiot friends who hate me? I'm pretty sure I don't.
[3/8/2010 12:34:09 AM] FirstAidKite: oh, and for the record, though you said you don't care about it, hbomb was wondering if your poetry was any good is all. then we got sidetracked by ulillillia's awesome book that is literally the greatest literary accomplishment in the world. the legend of the 10 elemental masters. no book before that has ever stopped midway through a sentence to tell me the computer code for a color when the sentence is about a furry wizard named knuckles travelling at 35 mph per second.
[3/8/2010 12:35:18 AM] gotshaton: yeah, I honestly really can't stress enough how much less valid that makes your opinion on my poetry. just fyi. I like uli and everything and I bet his book is interesting b.c. a fucking crazy shut in autist wrote it, but if you think that's the greatest literary accomplishment ever, even ironically, you really know nothing about nothing.
[3/8/2010 12:35:20 AM] gotshaton: good night.