3:18] mustaphafan: Damn it Sakurai
[13:18] shethblade: what
[13:19] mustaphafan: He is working on Smash 4
[13:19] shethblade: well
[13:19] shethblade: no
[13:19] shethblade: he talked about it
[13:19] shethblade: I'd like to make a point that half of the problem with brawl is nintendo top-collars
[13:19] shethblade: not just sakurai
[13:20] mustaphafan: Obviously
[13:20] shethblade: to be fair
[13:20] shethblade: sakurai didn't organize a team and keep it moving, either
[13:20] mustaphafan: People forget that many of Melee's techs were controller based
Tuesday, June 7, 2011 16:02:43
[16:02] mustaphafan: People keep saying that it is announced
[16:09] shethblade: that what is
[16:12] mustaphafan: Smash 4
[16:12] shethblade: If iwata says
[16:12] shethblade: "I promise you it will be developed"
[16:13] shethblade: it gets developed
[16:13] mustaphafan: They see this as evidence that it is being developed
[16:13] shethblade: oh
[16:13] shethblade: no
[16:13] shethblade: it's not being developed
[16:13] shethblade: but it will be
[16:13] shethblade: the only work you could consider being done right now
[16:13] shethblade: is a board of people selecting a staff
[16:13] shethblade: planning a budget
[16:13] mustaphafan: Sakurai may back out on this
[16:13] shethblade: and maybe outlying what they want from a development team
[16:13] shethblade: meh
[16:14] mustaphafan: I don't think we can expect a trialer next year
[16:14] shethblade: you assume Sakurai can say no to Iwata
[16:14] shethblade: (He can't.)
[16:16] shethblade: you might recall that nintendo put up the majority of the funding in founding sora ltd
[16:16] shethblade: sure it's "his" studio
[16:16] shethblade: yeah, right.
[16:20] mustaphafan: So it isn't confirmed necessarily
[16:21] mustaphafan: But even then
[16:21] mustaphafan: People were assuming we were getting a trialer
[16:28] shethblade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yofveAaXTI#t=01m18s
[16:28] shethblade: that
[16:28] shethblade: is pretty damn confirmed.
[16:29] mustaphafan: What is
[16:29] mustaphafan: I am not checking youtube
[16:29] mustaphafan: What is it a video of
[16:30] shethblade: "I have just promised you that smash brothers will be developed for nintendo 3ds, and for wiiU"
[16:30] shethblade: -Iwata
[16:35] mustaphafan: Oh
[16:35] mustaphafan: I'm curious how involved Sakurai will be
[16:35] mustaphafan: He might not be directing
[16:36] shethblade: well, he'll almost definitely be working on it
[16:39] mustaphafan: No!!!!
[16:39] mustaphafan: RIP Smash Bros.
[16:39] shethblade: Iiiii don't blame sakurai for brawl
[16:39] shethblade: since he liked melee.
[16:40] mustaphafan: Then why was Brawl as bad as it was
[16:40] mustaphafan: The next Smash needs to evolve the series
[16:40] mustaphafan: Otherwise it will die
[16:40] shethblade: nahhhhh
[16:41] mustaphafan: It will die with the competitive crowd
[16:41] mustaphafan: If it is a downgrade from Brawl
[16:41] mustaphafan: I don't think the competitive players will touch it
[16:42] shethblade: You can't really downgrade brawl
[16:43] mustaphafan: You can toss more random elements
[16:43] shethblade: yeah but that's about it
[16:43] mustaphafan: You could buff DI
[16:44] shethblade: all that'd do
[16:44] mustaphafan: 360 degree DI
[16:44] shethblade: is make everyone live longer
[16:44] shethblade: I don't think anyone considers DI in brawl particularly involved
[16:45] mustaphafan: You could buff Metaknight
[16:45] shethblade: loool
[16:46] mustaphafan: I know
[16:46] mustaphafan: You could make the perfect shield hit cause stun
[16:46] shethblade: that would have merit
[16:47] mustaphafan: If someone hits a perfect shield
[16:47] mustaphafan: they are hit with recoil
[16:47] shethblade: that'd be silly
[16:47] mustaphafan: Footstooling
[16:48] shethblade: footstooling was actually great.
[16:48] mustaphafan: canceling hitstun is more silly
[16:48] shethblade: unless it's mk doing it
[16:48] mustaphafan: Sakurai could give the ability to roll off ledges
[16:49] shethblade: what, dodge roll?
[16:49] shethblade: holy shit that'd be amazing
[16:49] mustaphafan: yes
[16:49] mustaphafan: There is a code for it in Brawl
[16:50] mustaphafan: okay
[16:50] mustaphafan: But if there was more random elements
[16:50] mustaphafan: How could you play around it?
[16:54] mustaphafan: Does the competitive community even want another Brawl?
[16:54] shethblade: yup
[16:54] shethblade: they want one without metaknight
[16:54] shethblade: or at least
[16:54] shethblade: metaknight being metaknight
[16:55] shethblade: most of us would rather have a fox than a metaknight
[16:55] mustaphafan: Really
[16:55] mustaphafan: The degrading of mechanics wasn't an issue?
[16:55] mustaphafan: Tripping wasn't an issue?
[16:55] shethblade: I'm past tripping
[16:55] shethblade: aaaaaaand
[16:56] shethblade: mechanics?
[16:56] shethblade: </DK>
[16:56] mustaphafan: Depth was lost
[16:56] shethblade: you lost... L-cancelling
[16:56] mustaphafan: Hitstun
[16:56] mustaphafan: no hitstun
[16:56] shethblade: lots of people like that
[16:57] shethblade: people typically play brawl competitively because it's NOT street fighter/tekken etc
[16:57] mustaphafan: People like offensive play being gimped?
[16:57] shethblade: where hits = muscle memory combos
[16:57] mustaphafan: Smash Bros. had DI
[16:57] mustaphafan: So it was never muscle memory
[16:57] shethblade: doesn't account for much
[16:57] shethblade: combos happen
[16:57] shethblade: all the tie
[16:57] shethblade: time*
[16:58] mustaphafan: Sakurai could buff charging smashes
[16:58] mustaphafan: Allowing you to shield out of a charge smash
[16:59] shethblade: that'd be goofy
[16:59] mustaphafan: Sakurai could remove neutral stages
[16:59] shethblade: sakurai wouldn't
[16:59] shethblade: he put battlefield and fd in a second game
[16:59] shethblade: he also liked making yoshi's island, and lylat
[17:00] shethblade: as stages that were just a theme
[17:00] mustaphafan: He didn't expect Brawl to be played competitively
[17:00] mustaphafan: He might try to prevent the next one to be played competitively
[17:00] shethblade: nahhhh
[17:01] mustaphafan: Why did he drop Melee's mechanics then
[17:01] shethblade: hitstun is a property over a mechanic
[17:01] shethblade: the mechanic he dropped was L-cancelling
[17:01] shethblade: I see no problems here
[17:02] mustaphafan: He changed ledges
[17:02] shethblade: oh that
[17:02] shethblade: ...no problem there
[17:02] shethblade: I like matches not just being
[17:02] mustaphafan: Balance
[17:02] shethblade: "damn, I've fallen and I can't gte back up"
[17:02] shethblade: as for balance
[17:02] mustaphafan: Yeah but it is imbalanced who can get back up on stage
[17:02] mustaphafan: He fucked up meteor canceling too
[17:03] shethblade: what, B+UP to recover?
[17:03] shethblade: nothing wrong
[17:03] shethblade: you can get around it
[17:03] shethblade: also
[17:03] shethblade: sakurai this, sakurai that
[17:03] shethblade: sakurai's job was to manage a staff
[17:03] shethblade: that included
[17:04] shethblade: an absolutely preposterous amount of people
[17:04] shethblade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATn3ZjkgrbY#t=03m10s Iunno, seems to me like you can deal with meteor cancels
[17:05] shethblade: it's called "persistence"
[17:05] shethblade: any idea where I can find the video of the maximum theoretical shine speed in melee?
[17:06] mustaphafan: 1 frame
[17:06] shethblade: 2 frames ain't it
[17:06] shethblade: 30 shines a second
[17:06] mustaphafan: Because Sakurai specifically said that he didn't want competitive play
[17:07] shethblade: I take that with a hint of salt
[17:07] shethblade: he didn't want the IMPENETRABLE WALL of melee
[17:07] mustaphafan: Brawl was a disappointment
[17:07] mustaphafan: I'm sure sales will eventually drop if the gameplay degrades
[17:11] shethblade: but yeah
[17:11] shethblade: wasn't there a video somewhere
[17:11] shethblade: of someone setting up a macro
[17:11] shethblade: to do 30 shines a second?
[17:11] mustaphafan: It's not just the character balance
[17:11] mustaphafan: Which is a big issue
[17:11] mustaphafan: But just overall mechanics
[17:12] shethblade: nah man
[17:12] shethblade: us brawl peeps like brawl how it is
[17:12] shethblade: being mindgames
[17:12] shethblade: not mashing the L button every damn time we want to land
[17:12] mustaphafan: I don't like L-Canceling either
[17:13] mustaphafan: That's not the point
[17:13] mustaphafan: Sakurai personally said he tried to make it more accessible and less competitive friendly
[17:13] mustaphafan: Also Wavedashing, Dash-dancing
[17:13] shethblade: -more accessible
[17:13] shethblade: noooooot less competitive-friendly
[17:14] mustaphafan: You can't say Brawl isn't less competitive friendly than Melee
[17:15] shethblade: It isn't. Most people get turned off by metaknight.
[17:15] mustaphafan: Lol
[17:15] shethblade: thems the facts
[17:15] mustaphafan: No
[17:15] mustaphafan: That can't be possible
[17:15] mustaphafan: The fact that you play with tripping on suggests otherwise
[17:16] shethblade: I rarely, rarely get buttfucked by a trip
[17:16] shethblade: and I play luigi
[17:16] shethblade: I trip
[17:16] shethblade: twice as much
[17:17] mustaphafan: What
[17:17] mustaphafan: What is the point of using tilts
[17:17] mustaphafan: You can get messed up due to the lack of hitstun
[17:18] mustaphafan: Or the screwed up teching window
Tuesday, June 7, 2011 17:18:16
[17:18] shethblade: depends on the character
[17:18] shethblade: weegee uses 2/3
[17:18] shethblade: DK uses all of them
[17:18] shethblade: lucario can viably use all of them
[17:18] shethblade: ICs can use all of them
[17:19] shethblade: marth can use all of them
[17:19] shethblade: toon link uses... mostly one of them, but that's TL
[17:19] shethblade: he should be pressing B all match
[17:19] shethblade: and maybe Z