[17:39] -!- Adrianchen [4268da72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.104.218.114] has joined #gawker-sr
[17:40] < Adrianchen> hi
[17:41] <@db9> Morning, how are you doing.
[17:41] <@db9> I'm curious, what do you know about the Silk Road?
[17:42] < Adrianchen> just checking: is this Joshua?
[17:42] <@db9> Yeah.
[17:42] < Adrianchen> cool
[17:43] < Adrianchen> Pretty much all I know about it is what was on the bitcoin forum
[17:43] <@db9> I've been involved with mining for a bit. I'm into network security and tend to research a lot of the undernet.
[17:43] < Adrianchen> and from browsing the site itself
[17:43] < Adrianchen> ah
[17:43] < Adrianchen> I sent messages to a few people from the forum--which one where you?
[17:44] <@db9> I can't say.
[17:44] <@db9> I'm not on it.
[17:44] < Adrianchen> ah
[17:45] <@db9> I'm sure you have a list of questions.
[17:45] < Adrianchen> yeah
[17:45] < Adrianchen> well
[17:45] < Adrianchen> my main question about Silk Road is: Is it for real?
[17:45] < Adrianchen> there are all sorts of sites that purport to offer illegal drugs but usually turn out to be scams
[17:46] <@db9> Well, Silk Road isn't a dealer.
[17:46] <@db9> It's like reddit.
[17:46] <@db9> It's just a forum.
[17:47] < Adrianchen> but are the sellers SR legit?
[17:47] < Adrianchen> *sellers on SR
[17:47] < stieggles> What do you mean by legitimate?
[17:47] <@db9> You can't group them all into one category.
[17:48] < Adrianchen> well, if I were to go onto silk road and try to buy LSD from a highly-rated seller using bitcoins, would I get the LSD?
[17:48] < Adrianchen> that's what I mean by legit
[17:48] < stieggles> If reviews of the seller are to be believed, yes.
[17:49] <@db9> The website has feedback of the users who have bought from the vendors.
[17:49] <@db9> Those reviews are written by real people, I believe.
[17:49] < Adrianchen> what makes you think that? It seems like they could easily be sockpuppets since everything is anonymous
[17:50] <@db9> That's part of the risk of anonymity.
[17:50] <@db9> If you doubt it, might I suggest making a test order?
[17:50] <@db9> What is the purpose of the article?
[17:51] < Adrianchen> I'm interested in writing about actual things you can buy with Bitcoins
[17:51] < stieggles> You can buy alpaca wool!
[17:51] < stieggles> (Not a euphenism for a drug.)
[17:51] < Adrianchen> ha, yeah
[17:51] <@db9> Also bitcoin badges
[17:52] < stieggles> It was actually the first thing I bought with my coins - just to see if I could.
[17:52] < Adrianchen> and it worked?
[17:52] < stieggles> It did! Though wasn't on Silk Road - SR wasn't around then.
[17:53] <@db9> Adrianchen: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
[17:53] <@db9> This is a reputable site listing things that you can buy/sell with BTC.
[17:53] < Adrianchen> as far as my interest in silk road: It seems like it's a big hotpoint in the Bitcoin community and in the discussion about bitcoins
[17:54] < Adrianchen> because if Silk Road actually does work as advertised, then that's a pretty big deal
[17:54] < stieggles> I'm sorry, but what do you imply with "works as advertised"
[17:54] <@db9> Adrianchen: They don't advertise, by the way.
[17:55] < Adrianchen> If people can use the forum to conduct completely anonymous transactions
[17:55] <@db9> People have been doing this for years.
[17:55] <@db9> Well before the SR.
[17:55] < stieggles> If the user is fairly knowledgable in how to maintain Internet anonymity, yes.
[17:55] < stieggles> But if they can do that, SR is redundant.
[17:55] <@db9> Pecunix is a common currency used for this sort of thing.
[17:56] <@db9> To be entirely honest, the SR is nothing new.
[17:56] <@db9> The functionality you're asking about, at least.
[17:57] <@db9> Hell, if you google for online drugs, you're generally lead to a forum called 'topix.'
[17:57] < Adrianchen> yes, I'm familiar with topix
[17:57] <@db9> People have been dealing there since the 90's.
[17:57] <@db9> Sure there are a lot of scammers, but there are definitely legit people there too.
[17:57] <@db9> The same goes for any marketplace.
[17:57] <@db9> It's why I can't say "SR is legit."
[17:58] <@db9> Because I would be speaking for it as a whole.
[17:58] < Adrianchen> right
[17:58] <@db9> It's not a vendor, it's just a place for vendors to go.
[17:58] < Adrianchen> but there are definitely vendors who are legitimate on the site?
[17:58] <@db9> Would there be so much press about SR otherwise?
[17:59] <@db9> s/press/hubbub/
[17:59] < Adrianchen> who's Stieggles, btw
[17:59] < stieggles> The ghost of darknets past! Or somesuch.
[17:59] <@db9> her name is Maiya.
[17:59] <@db9> A finnish friend of mine.
[17:59] <@db9> She's got some good info.
[18:00] < Adrianchen> ah
[18:00] < Adrianchen> what's that?
[18:00] < stieggles> I'm just a bitcoin user, I use lots of markets Silk Road and /r/BitMarket
[18:01] <@db9> Have you ever done drugs, Adrianchen?
[18:01] < Adrianchen> I have, yes
[18:01] <@db9> Do you have any bitcoin?
[18:01] < Adrianchen> I have no bitcoins
[18:02] < stieggles> Adrian, I want to emphasize one thing about SR, that I think has come across, but I'm not sure:
[18:02] <@db9> If you've got about 20 bucks, you can try it out for yourself.
[18:02] < Adrianchen> right, well I'm not going to be breaking the law for this article
[18:02] < stieggles> Silk Road isn't a drug market. It's a market. It's a well written website, that does its job well. Users are the same on every site.
[18:03] <@db9> You don't have to break the law.
[18:03] < Adrianchen> but it's certainly focused on drugs
[18:03] < stieggles> Owning bitcoins aren't illegal, Adrian.
[18:03] <@db9> You can order US stamps on the SR.
[18:03] <@db9> Adrianchen: It didn't used to be focused on drugs.
[18:03] < stieggles> No, it's not, Adrian. Outside perspective is skewed in that regard, IMO.
[18:03] < stieggles> Drugs are illegal, and therefore interesting.
[18:03] < Adrianchen> why do you think it has that reputation?
[18:03] <@db9> There were guns, prostitute leads, etc.
[18:04] < stieggles> And... stuff like cars and computer parts and games.
[18:04] < stieggles> It's just a market.
[18:04] <@db9> Yeah but the legal stuff is boring.
[18:04] <@db9> You can get that anywhere.
[18:04] < stieggles> ^-- Why it has that reputation.
[18:04] <@db9> Like you said.
[18:05] < Adrianchen> does anyone know who runs SR?
[18:05] <@db9> ahahaha
[18:05] <@db9> That guy would be fucking stupid for revealing his identity.
[18:06] < stieggles> I once heard it was actually run by a wheel of cheese in the Philipines, but I don't really believe it.
[18:06] <@db9> The only reason it's still running is because he hasn't mentioned anything to anyone. I've never once heard mention of the guy other than by the handle 'SilkRoad.'
[18:06] < Adrianchen> he's got his shit together, whoever it is
[18:06] <@db9> anyway
[18:06] <@db9> These services come and go.
[18:06] <@db9> The Silk Road is going down eventually.
[18:07] <@db9> but something else will pop up and take it's place.
[18:07] <@db9> I personally don't think an article on the undernet is very helpful.
[18:07] < Adrianchen> why's that
[18:07] <@db9> If you leave it vague enough, you'll just bore people.
[18:07] <@db9> If you give specific information you're incriminating your employer.
[18:08] <@db9> Not to mention, this has been done before. I'm just curious on what angle you want to take.
[18:08] < Adrianchen> SR has been mentioned in a lot of places already
[18:08] <@db9> Granted it's your job to be interesting, not mine.
[18:08] < stieggles> Adrian: In my opinion, as an old school bitcoin user, the real story with Silk Road is the quantity of people anxious to escape a centralized currency and trade system.
[18:09] < Adrianchen> what is interesting to me is that a lot of people in the bitcoin community seem ambivalent about SR
[18:09] < stieggles> Some of us view Bitcoin as a real currency, not drug barter tokens.
[18:10] <@db9> Why would you be ambivalent about SR?
[18:10] <@db9> It has good feedback.
[18:10] <@db9> I've never seen anyone claim the website is a scam.
[18:11] <@db9> You'd think somebody would be a whistleblower if it were.
[18:11] <@db9> The community seems pretty well in favour of it.
[18:11] < Adrianchen> just the fact that, like Stieggles says,some people are worried it gives bitcoins a bad reputation
[18:11] <@db9> Does the USD have a bad reputation if people buy illicit substances with it?
[18:11] <@db9> Shit, most dollars have cocaine on them.
[18:12] < Adrianchen> right, I'm not advocating that viewpoint
[18:12] < stieggles> In places where the USD is a niche currency, yes, it does.
[18:12] < Adrianchen> so do either of you know anyone who's successfully used SR?
[18:12] < Adrianchen> and were they happy with how it worked?
[18:13] <@db9> Read the reviews, man.
[18:13] <@db9> That's where feedback is left.
[18:13] <@db9> Do you think people who use the undernet are accustomed to incriminating themselves?
[18:14] < Adrianchen> doubt it!
[18:14] <@db9> Let's say you made a purchase and I was interviewing you.
[18:14] < Adrianchen> but like you said, there's legal things on SR
[18:14] <@db9> It would be ludicrous for you to tell me.
[18:15] < stieggles> Adrian, if it's experiences using bitcoins to buy things you're after, why limit to Silk Road?
[18:15] < Adrianchen> It seems like one of the most advanced implementations of bitcoins into commerce
[18:15] < Adrianchen> that's why I'm interested in it
[18:16] < Adrianchen> would you agree with that/
[18:16] < stieggles> Silk Road, as a website, seems to be pretty well written.
[18:16] <@db9> I'll be straight forward.
[18:16] <@db9> It is the most impressive bitcoin market in existance. Simply because of the escrow person.
[18:16] <@db9> function*
[18:17] < Adrianchen> how well does that work?
[18:17] <@db9> If a vendor doesn't deliver, the admin refunds the customer.
[18:17] < stieggles> Unfortunately, we have to again point to reviews.
[18:17] <@db9> It's happened many times on the forums.
[18:17] < Adrianchen> and the admin is pretty reliable with that?
[18:17] <@db9> Like stieggles said, people say it in the reviews all the time.
[18:18] < Adrianchen> does the admin ever explain why they wanted to set up this market?
[18:19] < stieggles> Not to my knowledge, though one could speculate.
[18:20] <@db9> If you look at his profile sometimes he has things for sale.
[18:20] <@db9> I imagine it was so he could have a safe outlet that he controlled.
[18:21] < Adrianchen> could you imagine Silk Road becoming a big site for trade outside of drugs?
[18:21] <@db9> This is speculation.
[18:21] <@db9> Do not take it as fact.
[18:21] <@db9> No.
[18:21] < Adrianchen> sure
[18:21] <@db9> I don't see it getting big at all.
[18:21] < stieggles> He's a journalist, I'm pretty sure they sign something with blood that says that now he specifically HAS to take it as fact.
[18:22] < Adrianchen> why not?
[18:22] <@db9> Because bitcoin has a pretty high barrier to entry.
[18:22] <@db9> It's not easy for the average joe to use.
[18:22] < stieggles> And SR adds to it
[18:22] < stieggles> There's more open marketplaces in existence, though none as sophisticated, like you said.
[18:22] <@db9> I'm pretty sure getting big would be dangerous too.
[18:22] <@db9> DEA attention and all that.
[18:23] <@db9> Unless the owner has a death wish he's probably trying to stay on the down low.
[18:23] < Adrianchen> how has SR changed over time?
[18:24] <@db9> The first version was pretty slow.
[18:24] <@db9> It's been getting much faster.
[18:24] < Adrianchen> they also changed what they allow to be sold, right?
[18:25] <@db9> Yeah
[18:25] <@db9> They banned guns and hookers.
[18:25] <@db9> Didn't want the attention.
[18:25] <@db9> Have you read the forums?
[18:25] <@db9> The SR forums, all this info is in there.
[18:26] < Adrianchen> I've mainly looked at the Bitcoin forums
[18:26] <@db9> That's all 3rd-hand info normally.
[18:26] <@db9> You want to go to the source.
[18:26] < Adrianchen> yeah
[18:26] < Adrianchen> it seems like they have a pretty good community on SR
[18:26] <@db9> SR has an outlet for its users to talk, it's a link on the bottom
[18:27] < Adrianchen> how many active users do you think there are?
[18:29] <@db9> no way of knowing
[18:29] <@db9> The front page says how many transactions have taken place though
[18:29] < Adrianchen> I don't see that
[18:29] <@db9> one sec, let me check
[18:30] < Adrianchen> what about the makeup of the user base? Is it mostly european? US?
[18:30] <@db9> no way of knowing
[18:30] <@db9> Everywhere
[18:30] <@db9> The vendors also say where they ship from.
[18:30] <@db9> US/CA/EU
[18:32] < Adrianchen> how do people find out about Silk Road?
[18:33] <@db9> How did you find out about it?
[18:33] <@db9> The bitcoin forums, I remember.
[18:33] < Adrianchen> yeah
[18:33] <@db9> It's all word of mouth.
[18:33] <@db9> Spread on websites.
[18:34] <@db9> There used to be a non-tor site for it.
[18:34] <@db9> but it was taken down in the name of privacy
[18:34] <@db9> Some people spread it around social networking sites.
[18:34] <@db9> I personally try not to share the link to anyone.
[18:34] <@db9> It's dangerous.
[18:35] < Adrianchen> dangerous to share the link?
[18:35] <@db9> Yeah.
[18:35] <@db9> Let's say law enforcement gets wind of the site.
[18:35] <@db9> (they are already all over)
[18:35] <@db9> and they start vending.
[18:35] <@db9> If you make an order, all of the sudden, cops have your address.
[18:35] <@db9> It's not something I wish upon anyone.
[18:35] < Adrianchen> yeah, that's why it's amazing anyone does it
[18:35] <@db9> Of course.
[18:36] <@db9> That's why there are reviews.
[18:36] <@db9> If you get raided I recommend leaving a negative review.
[18:36] < Adrianchen> ha
[18:36] < Adrianchen> do you think the feds are aware of the site/
[18:36] <@db9> Oh I'm positive.
[18:36] <@db9> It's not private at all.
[18:37] < Adrianchen> so I have to go
[18:37] <@db9> Not a problem.
[18:38] < Adrianchen> but before I do: How would you exactly describe your relation to bitcoins/SR?
[18:38] <@db9> Would you mind sending me a copy of your article when you release it?
[18:38] < Adrianchen> no problem
[18:38] <@db9> I'm an interested observer, just like yourself.
[18:38] < stieggles> That's an extremely loaded question.
[18:38] < Adrianchen> how long have you been involved?
[18:38] < Adrianchen> I mean, just so I know how to describe you in the article
[18:38] <@db9> I'm a newcomer. stieggles has been in it for years.
[18:38] <@db9> Not SR
[18:38] <@db9> Just the undernet.
[18:38] < stieggles> I'm a user and promoter of bitcoins, unrelated to SR.
[18:39] < stieggles> I've been in BTC since they first hit, and dark economics prior, like he said.
[18:39] < Adrianchen> ok
[18:39] < Adrianchen> and as a bitcoin promoter, how do you feel about SR?
[18:40] < Adrianchen> is it "good" or "bad" for the cause?
[18:40] < stieggles> I am a strong supporter of free economics. I'll let you interpret that however you'd like for the article.
[18:41] < Adrianchen> is there anyone else you'd recommend that I talk to about this?
[18:42] <@db9> You can try getting ahold of SilkRoad himself.
[18:42] <@db9> Via the website.
[18:42] <@db9> Good luck though.
[18:42] < stieggles> Everyone you can. Bitcoins are a completely revolutionary form of currency, there are a lot of opinions.
[18:43] < Adrianchen> specifically related to SR and other bitcoin-driven markets, though?
[18:44] < stieggles> Both. Anyone who knows a decent about about BTC knows about, and feels strongly about, SR.
[18:44] <@db9> I agree.
[18:44] <@db9> It's not uncommon at all.
[18:44] < Adrianchen> I would love to speak with someone who actually uses SR
[18:44] <@db9> Also we haven't told you anything that isn't public today.
[18:44] < Adrianchen> either as a seller or a buyer
[18:45] < stieggles> Adrian, do you have a statement on privacy that you use for interviewees?
[18:45] < Adrianchen> obviously I will keep them anonymous, and it doesn't have to be someone trading illegal things
[18:45] < stieggles> Many people who have information you'd like will be extremely cautious.
[18:45] < Adrianchen> I can give them my word as a journalist
[18:45] < Adrianchen> I've never burned a source
[18:45] < Adrianchen> and I am constantly working with anonymous sources
[18:45] < stieggles> How does Gawker handle proxied interviews?
[18:46] < Adrianchen> well, if you were willing to pass off some questions or something we could do that
[18:46] < Adrianchen> I would much rather speak to someone myself, obviously
[18:47] < stieggles> Obviously, and that probably wouldn't be an issue as people involved tend to be very security aware.
[18:47] < stieggles> Do you have an Azadi running anywhere?
[18:47] < Adrianchen> I'm not familiar with an azadi
[18:49] < stieggles> Fair enough. Preferred contact medium?
[18:49] <@db9> anonymous email is pretty nice.
[18:49] <@db9> IRC is shit for security.
[18:49] < Adrianchen> sure, we could do it over email
[18:50] < stieggles> Shall I send someone at your main gawker email?
[18:50] < Adrianchen> that's good
[18:50] < Adrianchen> adrian@gawker.com
[18:51] < stieggles> I will see what can be arranged. I'm sure there's someone who's bought somethingcrazy and is willing to disclose it.
[18:51] < Adrianchen> great
[18:52] < Adrianchen> alright, well thanks again for speaking with me
[18:52] < Adrianchen> please let me know if anything else comes up, and I'll look forward to that email
[18:53] <@db9> Sure thing. Thanks for stopping by.