<dothacker> this seems like a pretty obvious answer of no, but supposing you had someone strong enough to lift you, who could toss you up easily, if you both jumped at the same time and the other person tossed you up, would the other person just be pushing themself downward faster or could you actually get a boost upward from this action?
<Goop> shiretoko: !!!!
<Goop> shminux: * !!!
<dothacker> I could see it working if you were a child with a smaller mass, and/or if they were still going upward as they threw you, but if they were at the top of their jump and lifted you, they couldn't do it, right?
* glcrazy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
<Goop> yeah I cant see why not either...
<dothacker> if I understand the process correctly, it sounds like as long as they still have the momentum to go upward, they could throw you?
* glcrazy (~quassel@79.119.94.231) has joined ##physics
<Goop> think about it as holding a ball...
<Goop> if you are holding a ball and jumping upwards, and you toss the ball up the ball goes higher.
<dothacker> however, for every reaction...equal and opposite reaction, so they would be pushing themself down no matter what, since ground isn't supporting them, however, how much would they go down versus how much force went into you?
* glcrazy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
<Goop> exactly the opossite force of throwing the ball is much less substantial to me as it is to the ball
<dothacker> yeah, my first thought was with a ball, but a person is much bigger than a ball, so I moved to the child idea, but I'm trying to get to the idea of 2 adults
* Katovatzschyn has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
<dothacker> if we jumped and I grabbed you by the collar and pushed you up as hard as I could while we were still ascending, how much could I push you up as opposed to pushing myself down?
<dothacker> is that more of a thing that would be dependent on strength?
<Goop> you'd push me up if your "pushing force" is greater then my weight, MA
<dothacker> yes, but how would I know how much pushing force I had?
<dothacker> I mean some of that goes toward pushing me down, doesn't it?
<Goop> yes the exact opposite of it
<Goop> do you have specific values?
* shminux has quit (Disconnected by services)
* shminux_ (~Shminux@unaffiliated/shminux) has joined ##physics
<dothacker> or do I subtract the force required to break even with your weight from my total force output?
<dothacker> then that resulting value is how much you'd go up?
<dothacker> no specific values, I'm just watching the ff7 CGI movie and they toss Cloud up person by person, was just wondering how far off reality it was, supposing people could actually be that strong, of course
* glcrazy (~quassel@79.119.94.231) has joined ##physics
* Jayle has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!)
<Goop> lets say object A and object B are in free fall.
* monoprotic is now known as monoprotic|sleep
<Goop> both have forces of MG acting on them.
<Goop> if B pushes upwards on A with force K, A has a net force of K-Mg
<Goop> B has a net force of Mg + K
<dothacker> but it's not freefall, as we're already going upward, as in a jump
<dothacker> or is that still considered freefall?
<Goop> is gravity in play?
<dothacker> yes
<Goop> ok then just add the upwards force to each equation
<Goop> for A two forces are acting upwards the jump, and the push.
<Goop> and mg is still acting downwards
<Goop> on it
<Goop> for B same deal
<dothacker> I don't get the equations
<dothacker> well, maybe I do
<Goop> Let F1 = Jump force, F2 = Push force
<Goop> Net force on A = F1 + F2 - mg
<Goop> Net force on B = F1 - F2 - mg
<dothacker> ok
<Goop> now in equation A
* mv-- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
<Goop> if mg is greater than F1 + F2 , that means the person would go downwards
<Goop> so if the pushing force is large enough to make it greater than MG object A would go higher,
<Goop> (I suck at explaining via txt)
<Goop> back to your originally question it is completely dependent on strength
<dothacker> but also speed, no?
<Goop> speed of what?
<Goop> when you are dealing with forces, accelerations are important...
<dothacker> the speed of the push force
<Goop> is the push being applied slowly?
* Dylan_Hsu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
<dothacker> I'm not sure what would happen if it were fast or slow
<Goop> speed is irrelavent to force...
<dothacker> however, the thing I don't quite get is that I could be strong and apply a fast, hard force and end up pushing myself down or I could do it and end up moving the other thing...I have this problem when considering how I balance things
* Amadiro has quit (Quit: Leaving)
* Alex3012 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
<dothacker> I know there is a function I'm not aware of that's happening, however, it's odd that I can, say, hang off a ledge and if I pull up fast, I will either A. Pull myself up or B. break off that part of the ledge and fall
<dothacker> not sure how to describe it, I do feel there is a change somehow when I do it
<dothacker> then I started thinking about speed because you can pull a tablecloth off slowly and pull all the dishes off or do it fast and they'll all stay put
<Goop> thats the topic of inertia
<dothacker> this thing I'm describing may be more of a mechanical thing, but back to the original topic
<dothacker> so speed has nothing to do with the push?
<dothacker> as long as we are still both traveling upward, it doesn't matter how fast I transmit the push?
<Goop> it does
<Goop> consider this:
<Goop> ball is falling at 9.8 m/s^2
* villor (c2110796@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.17.7.150) has joined ##physics
<Goop> I apply an opposite force of 4 m/s^2
<Goop> the net force is still a downwards of 5.8 m/s^2
<Goop> right?
<dothacker> right
<Goop> one sec, bathroom
<Goop> ok u with me?
<Goop> DoYouKnow:
<Goop> dothacker: *
<dothacker> yes
<Goop> ok so now its going down at 5.8
<Goop> it will eventually go back up to 9.8 because the force of gravity right?
<dothacker> yeah
<Goop> now lets say I apply a force of 7 m/s^2 on it, net downwards force of 2.8m/s^2
<Goop> since the forces were spaced out, the ball never changed directions.
<Goop> now consider if you apply the 7 and 4 m/s^2 force at once.
<dothacker> yeah, but that's two forces
<Goop> You'd have an 11 m/s^2 force acting on a 9.8 downward force putting you at 1.2 upwards
<Goop> I thought they were technically the same...
<Goop> idk. back to studying. Let me know if you figure it out
<dothacker> maybe, but not helping me figure it out..but it's food for thought
<dothacker> thanks for the help though
* villor has quit (Quit: Page closed)
<dothacker> I never really took it to the equation level
* SgrA has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
<dothacker> wait, wait
* SgrA (~SgrA@unaffiliated/sgra) has joined ##physics
<dothacker> don't I gain their downward force the moment I try to lift them? I think your equation was wrong
<AfroFire> Doh I clearly was disconnected and missed the question
<AfroFire> Mind if I ask whaty ou guys are discussing?