Conversation with hillis1701 at 2006-10-08 17:39:59 on goeagle15 (aim)
(17:39:59) HILLIS1701: seems I cannot win this...
(18:02:40) goeagle15: Very little in STF is about winning, it's about compromising to reach a solution that works the best for everyone involved, as well as the club.
(18:03:11) HILLIS1701: we have differing views of that, but I also understand I am powerless to do anything about it
(18:03:37) HILLIS1701: and the enforcement of the rules that everyone ignored for many years is more important to the club than I am
(18:04:39) goeagle15: If that's how you want to see it, there's very little that I can do to change your mind. The fact is, though, that you're wrong. The enforcement of rules that no one has had the balls to enforce is more important than the objections you've raised so far. It doesn't have anything to do with you personally.
(18:05:29) HILLIS1701: I imagine there was a good reason they were ignored
(18:05:47) goeagle15: Like?
(18:06:07) HILLIS1701: the existence of a happy RP environment was more important than a silly rule
(18:06:09) goeagle15: Oddly enough, in STF, many times things go unenforced because no one wants to be bothered with it.
(18:06:20) goeagle15: This won't change the existence of a happy RP environment in the least bit.
(18:06:38) HILLIS1701: neither would leaving it be
(18:06:38) goeagle15: In fact, having a spec that meets the SSSF requirements means that your players have even more to work with and to have fun with.
(18:07:02) HILLIS1701: you win, Sarah... I will choose another design
(18:07:42) HILLIS1701: I have archived he Columbus design so that it may again be resurrected
(18:08:01) goeagle15: That's fine. I'd be more than happy to work with you on rewriting it.
(18:08:25) goeagle15: There's nothing to say that after we've put some time and effort into it, you can't switch to the Columbus Mark III.
(18:08:33) HILLIS1701: I just feel that pushing this rule is not as important as the people involved
(18:09:00) goeagle15: I know you don't know me all that well, but I'm not Larry's twin. I'm looking at the big picture, I promise.
(18:09:09) goeagle15: I'm not just pushing this because rules are rules are rules.
(18:09:23) HILLIS1701: well, I feel alienated.
(18:09:55) HILLIS1701: and yes.. I know it's just me
(18:10:06) HILLIS1701: and now I realize how unimportant that is
(18:10:40) goeagle15: I don't want anyone to feel alienated. It seems odd to me that it'd just be over the ship spec. Is there anything else on your mind there?
(18:11:53) HILLIS1701: no.. I was quite happy until this started
(18:12:13) HILLIS1701: can't help feeling hijacked and betrayed
(18:12:59) HILLIS1701: I have dealt with alot of things in STF that were plainly wrong, but didn't rock the boat
(18:13:30) HILLIS1701: I stepped down as FComm a while back because I felt someone else could do better.. I care about the club.. I am not a petty person
(18:13:51) goeagle15: That's really admirable. I wish a lot more people in STF felt that way.
(18:14:58) HILLIS1701: in this instance, the mere existence of the rule seems to be the only justification for it...
(18:15:02) HILLIS1701: it should be scrapped
(18:16:21) goeagle15: Well, I don't know how much you've been paying attention to Command, but I'm not afraid to push controversial things.
(18:16:39) goeagle15: I personally do believe that it's a good idea for all ships to have a valid spec, though. That's one of the things that sets us above lesser ships.
(18:17:04) HILLIS1701: it was approved.. in 2000... just not updated
(18:17:37) goeagle15: Well, I'm sure you can see that it'd kind of suck for Jeff for us to run off with something that's his intellectual property.
(18:18:15) HILLIS1701: my feeling is that if someone submits a design for STF use, it should be available for update and use after they leave
(18:18:21) HILLIS1701: if not, don't submit it
(18:18:26) goeagle15: Well, we have rules for that now.
(18:18:30) goeagle15: Unfortunately, we didn't in 2000.
(18:19:42) HILLIS1701: I will likely post my feelings about this in command. I hope it lays the seed for future revision of some of our practices
(18:20:01) goeagle15: If only this had come up during the FCOMM discussion. :-)
(18:20:12) goeagle15: I think that the reason this is so difficult is because it's gone on so long.
(18:20:23) goeagle15: If you had a spec that got kicked out like...two years ago, we could take it over and update it.
(18:20:29) goeagle15: It's just that this one is so *old*.
(18:20:54) HILLIS1701: the happenings in command are generally geek-speak to the average member
(18:21:10) goeagle15: I'm trying to work on making it a bit easier for people to participate in.
(18:21:18) goeagle15: I'm hoping things like the discussion log help keep things tidy.
(18:21:26) HILLIS1701: I start reading the posts, but they get very bogged dwon
(18:22:23) HILLIS1701: well, I hope to eventually put some constraints on ED. It would be more of a car lot... a CO or FComm could shop for a ship design if they so choose
(18:22:39) HILLIS1701: it would be up the a designer to convince people their design is worth using
(18:22:47) HILLIS1701: sell it, basically
(18:23:11) HILLIS1701: otherwise, you only piss people off
(18:23:43) HILLIS1701: this need to overlord everything has run off SO many good people over the years
(18:23:55) goeagle15: Larry is actually trying to make sure that we have a good selection of ship specs.
(18:24:02) goeagle15: He found some pretty big holes.
(18:24:19) HILLIS1701: holes in an imaginary ship...
(18:24:44) HILLIS1701: give him a welding kit, not power.. LOL
(18:24:53) goeagle15: I don't want to be near him when he has a hot object. :-P
(18:26:04) HILLIS1701: well, I chatted with Larry for a while
(18:26:21) HILLIS1701: basically, I had to conclude that whatever damage he did could later be fixed
(18:27:01) goeagle15: I do have a handle on him, don't worry. ;-)
(18:27:08) goeagle15: He generally listens to me.
(18:27:32) HILLIS1701: well, I know he is very intellegent.. and has a need for perfect order...
(18:27:50) HILLIS1701: I also know that if he wanted to make a workable situation for both of us, he could
(18:28:11) HILLIS1701: but, ED is SO overloaded with work
(18:29:12) goeagle15: Well, to be fair, we've had five years to find a workable solution.
(18:29:18) goeagle15: What class are you interested in?
(18:29:29) HILLIS1701: Columbus... ROFL
(18:29:42) goeagle15: You know what I meant. :-P
(18:31:01) HILLIS1701: well, I plan to do whatever it takes to save Columbus.. so it will probably look silly IC to change, then change again
(18:31:35) HILLIS1701: a good comparison.. having a certain affinity for a sports team..
(18:31:45) HILLIS1701: it isn't logical, but it's human nature
(18:31:56) HILLIS1701: and I know my crew feels the same way
(18:32:07) HILLIS1701: at least the ones I've talked to
(18:32:51) goeagle15: Well, I'd like to get it changed to something. I won't force it to happen right away IC.
(18:33:02) goeagle15: Don't tell Larry I said this, but if you don't get around to it IC... ;-)
(18:33:27) HILLIS1701: well, we are between sims.. it would be stupid to change midsim
(18:34:10) HILLIS1701: we need to change it now, or wait until the end of next sim
(18:34:21) HILLIS1701: might give us time to get it updated
(18:34:38) goeagle15: I'd still like to do something OOC now, though.
(18:34:46) goeagle15: I think the Chimera would really work.
(18:35:25) goeagle15: You might even, gasp, find you like it.
(18:35:33) HILLIS1701: only under duress... you understand I will do what I am told, but I won't be a fan of it
(18:35:46) goeagle15: I understand.
(18:36:27) HILLIS1701: I already have the helmsman training on the Sffina Kataana
(18:37:05) HILLIS1701: it is not a minor part of your world
(18:37:31) goeagle15: So they get twice as many phasers to play with on the Sffina 2.
(18:39:30) HILLIS1701: I understand. But I will do whatever I can to change people's mind on this, short of getting demoted or banned
(18:40:15) HILLIS1701: I can be quite convincing too.. just ask Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney
(18:40:38) HILLIS1701: bet she wishes she never struck that cop
(18:41:10) HILLIS1701: I started a stink that led to a nice piece on Fox News Channel
(18:41:32) goeagle15: Just remember this is a club.
(18:41:41) HILLIS1701: exactly!
(18:42:03) HILLIS1701: it's not Roberts Rules of Order
(18:43:18) HILLIS1701: I need to cook something.. I'll be back later
(18:43:36) HILLIS1701 has gone away.
Conversation with hillis1701 at 2006-10-08 19:49:37 on goeagle15 (aim)
(19:49:37) HILLIS1701: have you read the Columbus spec?
(19:49:56) HILLIS1701: http://www.star-fleet.com/ed/specs/columbus/index.html
(19:50:54) goeagle15: Yes.
(19:51:07) HILLIS1701: I have been reading other specs too
(19:51:52) HILLIS1701: the only things I like better about them is the nifty quotes are better on the newer ones
(19:52:07) goeagle15: Ok.
(19:52:27) HILLIS1701: otherwise, a font change and a little more text would make it about the same
(19:53:11) HILLIS1701: the approved ones go from kinda small.. straight to huge
(19:54:05) goeagle15: The larger concern is getting Jeff's approval to modify the spec.
(19:54:44) HILLIS1701: a good job for Larry
(19:55:07) HILLIS1701: he can put those grandma powers to work.. hehe
(19:55:23) goeagle15: That's not really his job.
(19:55:30) goeagle15: If you want to modify the spec, it's up to you to seek permission.
(19:56:14) HILLIS1701: well, Starfleet can deliver a new ship.. and we can steal the old one
(19:56:19) HILLIS1701: might make a good sim.. hehe
(19:56:24) goeagle15: Uh-huh.
Conversation with hillis1701 at 2006-10-09 00:57:45 on goeagle15 (aim)
(00:57:45) HILLIS1701: Chimera seems too small, Nimitz too big
(00:58:08) goeagle15: Viking?
(00:59:01) HILLIS1701: 545.44 meters
(00:59:20) HILLIS1701: 800 for Columbus
(00:59:44) goeagle15: Ok, well, things aren't going to match perfectly.
(00:59:54) HILLIS1701: where will all the NE's go?
(01:00:40) HILLIS1701: have we considered a placement program for them?
(01:01:32) HILLIS1701: probably go for Chimera for now
(01:02:16) HILLIS1701: or Nimitz
(01:02:54) HILLIS1701: the things I check first are size and computer interface
(01:03:01) goeagle15: The Chimera is probably a better fit.
(01:04:47) HILLIS1701: the specs are overly descriptive.. not much room for imagination
(01:04:57) goeagle15: There is always room for imagination.
(01:06:48) HILLIS1701: perhaps it's time I try my hand a ship design
(01:07:30) HILLIS1701: a replacement of the Columbus
(01:08:19) HILLIS1701: well, I posted my feelings in Command.. no one may care, but at least I said my piece
(01:13:36) HILLIS1701: time for Dunkin Donuts.. talk to you later
(01:14:03) HILLIS1701 has gone away.
(01:24:56) HILLIS1701 has become idle.