[6/9/2010 1:01:56 AM] Makuro Mito: it's more like a graphical section of the random forums
[6/9/2010 1:01:59 AM] Makuro Mito: that's all.
[6/9/2010 1:02:08 AM] Aimee: thats all it needs to be.
[6/9/2010 1:02:09 AM] Makuro Mito: just that in random, we post pictures done by other people
[6/9/2010 1:02:25 AM] Makuro Mito: which is why I stay away from that place
[6/9/2010 1:02:38 AM] Makuro Mito: next time, someone like noper wanna whine about how shitty other people art work is
[6/9/2010 1:02:48 AM] Makuro Mito: I would like him to know that EVERYONE's art on that graphic section
[6/9/2010 1:02:53 AM] Makuro Mito: isn't up to par of what I've expected
[6/9/2010 1:02:59 AM] Makuro Mito: other than a selected few
[6/9/2010 1:03:07 AM] Makuro Mito: which is already requested into the TToE project
[6/9/2010 1:03:10 AM] Makuro Mito: which will never be finished
[6/9/2010 1:03:12 AM] Makuro Mito: that's all
[6/9/2010 1:04:03 AM] Aimee: i disagree. I agree that SOTW and some signature threads arent necessarily art as its not original, rendering an image, cropping it, WHATEVER, but people have actual art threads, and whether or not YOU think its shit, other people like it. and thats the point of art.
[6/9/2010 1:04:39 AM] Makuro Mito: remember how ethane whined about rainbow dogs
[6/9/2010 1:04:41 AM] Makuro Mito: and animals?
[6/9/2010 1:05:01 AM] Aimee: yes.
[6/9/2010 1:05:08 AM] Makuro Mito: okay, so do you have anything against ethane?
[6/9/2010 1:05:40 AM] Aimee: no. Nor do i have anything against you for having ur own opinion on peoples art in those threads.
[6/9/2010 1:05:46 AM] Aimee: coz thats all it is
[6/9/2010 1:05:51 AM] Aimee: purely opinion.
[6/9/2010 1:06:02 AM] Makuro Mito: It has to do with my personality
[6/9/2010 1:06:06 AM] Makuro Mito: because I always believe
[6/9/2010 1:06:07 AM] Aimee: exactly.
[6/9/2010 1:06:07 AM] Makuro Mito: that if I can do it
[6/9/2010 1:06:09 AM] Makuro Mito: everyone can
[6/9/2010 1:06:11 AM] Makuro Mito: that's all.
[6/9/2010 1:06:18 AM] mustapusta: your personality = push information to people, and making sure it's a fact
[6/9/2010 1:06:20 AM] Makuro Mito: if they give me below standards work, I'm going to feel that it's shit.
[6/9/2010 1:06:29 AM] mustapusta: you're going to be a HORRIBLE boss
[6/9/2010 1:06:34 AM] Aimee: lol
[6/9/2010 1:06:38 AM] Makuro Mito: No, I have high expectations of people
[6/9/2010 1:06:41 AM] Makuro Mito: I expect them to do either
[6/9/2010 1:06:43 AM] mustapusta: too high is no good
[6/9/2010 1:06:44 AM] Makuro Mito: up to par with me or even better
[6/9/2010 1:06:49 AM] mustapusta: you see
[6/9/2010 1:06:51 AM] mustapusta: as a boss
[6/9/2010 1:06:53 AM] mustapusta: up to par with you
[6/9/2010 1:07:00 AM] mustapusta: ???
[6/9/2010 1:07:05 AM] mustapusta: they might as well be the same position as you
[6/9/2010 1:07:08 AM] Aimee: people need criticism and the push to improve, you're not magically able to do everything.
[6/9/2010 1:07:14 AM] Aimee: you need practise
[6/9/2010 1:07:20 AM] Makuro Mito: Which is why I've said
[6/9/2010 1:07:24 AM] Makuro Mito: EFFORT!
[6/9/2010 1:07:27 AM] mustapusta: just insulting isn't going to help
[6/9/2010 1:07:29 AM] Aimee: effort goes into practise
[6/9/2010 1:07:36 AM] Makuro Mito: You don't see me making a thread in graphics just because I've practiced on paper!
[6/9/2010 1:07:39 AM] mustapusta: you need to guide them
[6/9/2010 1:07:50 AM] Aimee: you can put effort into something shit, but its still contributing to your improvement
[6/9/2010 1:07:58 AM] Makuro Mito: LOOK, I HAZ DRAWN STUFFS ON PAPER WITH PENCIL, NOW PRAAAAAAISE ME AND STROKE MY EPENOR!
[6/9/2010 1:08:04 AM] Aimee: no
[6/9/2010 1:08:10 AM] Aimee: its asking for advice
[6/9/2010 1:08:10 AM] Makuro Mito: of course not
[6/9/2010 1:08:16 AM] Aimee: critisism
[6/9/2010 1:08:19 AM] Makuro Mito: which is then
[6/9/2010 1:08:20 AM] Aimee: how can it be improved
[6/9/2010 1:08:25 AM] Makuro Mito: a second fault
[6/9/2010 1:08:28 AM] Makuro Mito: because
[6/9/2010 1:08:36 AM] Makuro Mito: you know what you've done wrong with your art
[6/9/2010 1:08:40 AM] Makuro Mito: LOL.
[6/9/2010 1:08:41 AM] Aimee: not necessarily
[6/9/2010 1:08:42 AM] Makuro Mito: that is the truth
[6/9/2010 1:08:50 AM] mustapusta: your advice
[6/9/2010 1:08:51 AM] Makuro Mito: other people might be impressed
[6/9/2010 1:08:56 AM] mustapusta: might help people draw towards your style
[6/9/2010 1:08:58 AM] Makuro Mito: but you know what's wrong with your art
[6/9/2010 1:09:04 AM] mustapusta: but it might not help them draw towards the style they want
[6/9/2010 1:09:12 AM] Aimee: you can draw like a god, but not know how to color an image. and its someones advice thats going to help you know how to color
[6/9/2010 1:09:15 AM] Makuro Mito: I've seen this multiples of times on iscribble
[6/9/2010 1:09:26 AM] Makuro Mito: I draw and color really well
[6/9/2010 1:09:26 AM] Makuro Mito: so what
[6/9/2010 1:09:30 AM] Aimee: congratulations
[6/9/2010 1:09:31 AM] Makuro Mito: people say it looks fantastic
[6/9/2010 1:09:32 AM] Makuro Mito: so what
[6/9/2010 1:09:38 AM] Makuro Mito: I know there's something wrong with that picture
[6/9/2010 1:09:43 AM] mustapusta: so
[6/9/2010 1:09:49 AM] mustapusta: ?????
[6/9/2010 1:09:51 AM] Makuro Mito: No matter how many votes it can get me, I know there's something wrong with it!
[6/9/2010 1:09:54 AM] Makuro Mito: that's all
[6/9/2010 1:10:02 AM] Makuro Mito: nevertheless, the best teacher is still
[6/9/2010 1:10:03 AM] Makuro Mito: yourself.
[6/9/2010 1:10:10 AM] mustapusta: not all the time
[6/9/2010 1:10:13 AM] mustapusta: <--- proven example
[6/9/2010 1:10:15 AM] Makuro Mito: if you sketch till a point of level where you think you can SEE fault in it
[6/9/2010 1:10:19 AM] Makuro Mito: then you can ask others
[6/9/2010 1:10:23 AM] Makuro Mito: but seriously
[6/9/2010 1:10:26 AM] mustapusta: my hands are not for drawing
[6/9/2010 1:10:38 AM] Makuro Mito: I've taken advice off other artists before
[6/9/2010 1:10:51 AM] Makuro Mito: and do you know what almost all of them had said?
[6/9/2010 1:10:52 AM] Aimee: if that was the case, in the context ur using 'if i can do it everyone can', teachers wouldnt exist and education in schools would be pointless.
[6/9/2010 1:11:04 AM] Makuro Mito: if you would just leave your art alone for a few days
[6/9/2010 1:11:06 AM] Makuro Mito: maybe just a day
[6/9/2010 1:11:09 AM] mustapusta: ill have to agree with aimee
[6/9/2010 1:11:14 AM] Makuro Mito: then stare at it the day tomorrow
[6/9/2010 1:11:17 AM] mustapusta: your expectations are ridiculously high
[6/9/2010 1:11:25 AM] Makuro Mito: you'll definetly see faults in it
[6/9/2010 1:11:36 AM] mustapusta: not everyone is unsatisfied at their work as you are
[6/9/2010 1:11:40 AM] Aimee: you can see the faults but not know how to correct them
[6/9/2010 1:11:45 AM] Makuro Mito: ...
[6/9/2010 1:11:57 AM] mustapusta: i draw shit, but i see improvement, i'm content
[6/9/2010 1:12:02 AM] Makuro Mito: if you can see the faults, then why can't you know NOT to correct them?
[6/9/2010 1:12:07 AM] mustapusta: leave it as it is, use it as reference to draw better.
[6/9/2010 1:12:22 AM] mustapusta: like let's say me
[6/9/2010 1:12:25 AM] mustapusta: when i draw eyes
[6/9/2010 1:12:27 AM] Makuro Mito: this is why, I can never pass maths
[6/9/2010 1:12:30 AM] mustapusta: they are looking straight at you
[6/9/2010 1:12:35 AM] mustapusta: and the head is facing left
[6/9/2010 1:12:39 AM] mustapusta: i know theres a problem
[6/9/2010 1:12:42 AM] mustapusta: but i have no idea how to fix it
[6/9/2010 1:13:10 AM] Makuro Mito: this is why
[6/9/2010 1:13:11 AM] mustapusta: you can't expect me to re-draw 105891358134 variety of the face
[6/9/2010 1:13:14 AM] Makuro Mito: you see pusta
[6/9/2010 1:13:15 AM] mustapusta: till i find the correct way to draw
[6/9/2010 1:13:22 AM] Makuro Mito: this is why I'm so fed up with the community sometimes
[6/9/2010 1:13:27 AM] Makuro Mito: they wouldn't try
[6/9/2010 1:13:29 AM] Makuro Mito: they just ask
[6/9/2010 1:13:38 AM] Makuro Mito: there are refrences
[6/9/2010 1:13:44 AM] Makuro Mito: you can go about looking
[6/9/2010 1:13:45 AM] mustapusta: so you rather we retry 3058132907580275 times
[6/9/2010 1:13:46 AM] Makuro Mito: or even try!
[6/9/2010 1:13:49 AM] mustapusta: instead of asking and trying 5 times?
[6/9/2010 1:13:49 AM] Makuro Mito: try to draw again and again
[6/9/2010 1:13:54 AM] Makuro Mito: why not
[6/9/2010 1:14:01 AM] Aimee: having someone elses opinion wether or not you choose to act on the advice, gives ur art another perspective and you can learn what looks good, not just to your eyes but to everyone else.
[6/9/2010 1:14:08 AM] Makuro Mito: besides, that's what I do all the time, I don't see anything wrong with it
[6/9/2010 1:14:32 AM] mustapusta: if i get advice to help me draw towards my specific style
[6/9/2010 1:14:37 AM] Makuro Mito: okay, maybe I do not have any problems with people who wants to ask
[6/9/2010 1:14:38 AM] mustapusta: and i try and it works
[6/9/2010 1:14:40 AM] mustapusta: i don't mind
[6/9/2010 1:14:52 AM] Makuro Mito: but I do have problems with people who doesn't place effort into thier work
[6/9/2010 1:14:54 AM] Aimee: im grateful for the persons help.
[6/9/2010 1:14:55 AM] Makuro Mito: that's all
[6/9/2010 1:15:28 AM] Makuro Mito: but the problem is that if you refuses to try, I don't see effort
[6/9/2010 1:15:31 AM] Makuro Mito: once again
[6/9/2010 1:15:33 AM] Makuro Mito: effort
[6/9/2010 1:15:57 AM] Makuro Mito: I don't know about everyone else
[6/9/2010 1:15:59 AM] Makuro Mito: but personally
[6/9/2010 1:16:01 AM] Makuro Mito: It took me
[6/9/2010 1:16:04 AM] Makuro Mito: 16 years
[6/9/2010 1:16:09 AM] Makuro Mito: 16 fucking years
[6/9/2010 1:16:14 AM] Makuro Mito: for me to draw what I can draw right now
[6/9/2010 1:16:23 AM] mustapusta: 16 years, goodjob, now what do you want people who just started or having an interest in it to do?
[6/9/2010 1:16:29 AM] mustapusta: master it in 2 decades?
[6/9/2010 1:16:31 AM] Makuro Mito: start practicing
[6/9/2010 1:16:37 AM] Makuro Mito: it's that simple
[6/9/2010 1:16:47 AM] mustapusta: i've seen my friend who's never drawn before, in design school, actually doing a good sketch
[6/9/2010 1:16:53 AM] mustapusta: that's being taught
[6/9/2010 1:17:01 AM] Aimee: i've been drawing for a long time too, but im not amazing, i find faults in a lot of things i do, but i still put in effort no matter what it is. And i value someones advice and take the critisism to help myself to improve.
[6/9/2010 1:17:22 AM] Makuro Mito: no one says anyone is amazing
[6/9/2010 1:17:24 AM] mustapusta: the only reason you improve is because people criticise it.
[6/9/2010 1:17:29 AM] Aimee: you seem to think you are.
[6/9/2010 1:17:32 AM] Makuro Mito: no
[6/9/2010 1:17:34 AM] mustapusta: but you're talking like everyone needs to be amazing
[6/9/2010 1:17:47 AM] Makuro Mito: If I'm amazing, I would have finished up TToE alone without other's help already
[6/9/2010 1:17:51 AM] Aimee: if i can do it, you can too.
its not as simple as that.
[6/9/2010 1:18:14 AM] Makuro Mito: If you are to think that way, or at least believe that you can do it that way
[6/9/2010 1:18:17 AM] Makuro Mito: now think it the other way
[6/9/2010 1:18:17 AM] mustapusta: it's like telling a stroke victim :"I CAN DO IT, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT TOO"
[6/9/2010 1:18:20 AM] Makuro Mito: if that person can do it
[6/9/2010 1:18:23 AM] Makuro Mito: I can do it too
[6/9/2010 1:18:32 AM] Makuro Mito: don't you guys ever had that mentality?
[6/9/2010 1:18:35 AM] mustapusta: i do
[6/9/2010 1:18:38 AM] Makuro Mito: then?
[6/9/2010 1:18:40 AM] mustapusta: except i don't use it when the other person
[6/9/2010 1:18:43 AM] mustapusta: has a disability
[6/9/2010 1:18:44 AM] Aimee: self motivation.
[6/9/2010 1:18:48 AM] Aimee: it doesnt work the other way round.
[6/9/2010 1:19:03 AM] Makuro Mito: it does
[6/9/2010 1:19:07 AM] mustapusta: for you it does
[6/9/2010 1:19:23 AM] mustapusta: "Just because it worked with you doesn't mean it worked with everyone else"
[6/9/2010 1:19:38 AM] Aimee: looking down on peopel that dont meet your ability in a certain thing whether its art, music, or anything doesnt help them to improve, it knocks them down
[6/9/2010 1:19:53 AM] Aimee: telling someone theyre shit at something coz u can do it better isnt the right attitude to have
[6/9/2010 1:19:59 AM] Makuro Mito: I don't look down on people, I look down on people who I've never seen enough effort placed into their work.
[6/9/2010 1:20:06 AM] Makuro Mito: did you place effort in your work?
[6/9/2010 1:20:08 AM] mustapusta: how do you know they never put in effort?
[6/9/2010 1:20:12 AM] mustapusta: what if someone tried for a year
[6/9/2010 1:20:12 AM] Makuro Mito: oh
[6/9/2010 1:20:13 AM] mustapusta: to do a painting
[6/9/2010 1:20:16 AM] mustapusta: and to your eyes
[6/9/2010 1:20:18 AM] Makuro Mito: maybe if they've done it in 5 minutes?
[6/9/2010 1:20:19 AM] Aimee: I put effort into things i enjoy; music, art.
[6/9/2010 1:20:20 AM] mustapusta: it looks like a kid's drawing
[6/9/2010 1:20:23 AM] mustapusta: but for them
[6/9/2010 1:20:25 AM] mustapusta: they spent a year
[6/9/2010 1:20:27 AM] mustapusta: they tried
[6/9/2010 1:20:29 AM] Makuro Mito: or cropped it out from somewhere?
[6/9/2010 1:20:32 AM] mustapusta: yet you just tell them
[6/9/2010 1:20:35 AM] mustapusta: "THIS IS EFFORTLESS"
[6/9/2010 1:20:40 AM] mustapusta: what do you think they think?
[6/9/2010 1:20:43 AM] Makuro Mito: pusta
[6/9/2010 1:20:44 AM] mustapusta: gawayno's drawing
[6/9/2010 1:20:46 AM] Makuro Mito: I've said this before
[6/9/2010 1:20:47 AM] mustapusta: i can say he put in effort
[6/9/2010 1:20:50 AM] Makuro Mito: effort
[6/9/2010 1:20:51 AM] Makuro Mito: can be seen
[6/9/2010 1:20:55 AM] mustapusta: because he actually tries to make it realistic
[6/9/2010 1:20:58 AM] Makuro Mito: which is why I din't say his work is shit
[6/9/2010 1:21:10 AM] Makuro Mito: I told people to tell him the truth
[6/9/2010 1:21:19 AM] mustapusta: drarin did
[6/9/2010 1:21:21 AM] Makuro Mito: apparently he thought that was me trying to tell him that he suck
[6/9/2010 1:21:28 AM] Makuro Mito: because people were going
[6/9/2010 1:21:33 AM] Makuro Mito: LOLOL YOU DRAW LIKE THE SHIN-CHAN ARTIST PERSON
[6/9/2010 1:21:34 AM] Makuro Mito: HAHAHAHA
[6/9/2010 1:21:45 AM] mustapusta: no it's because there was one guy who was praising his art
[6/9/2010 1:21:51 AM] mustapusta: intentionally trolling him
[6/9/2010 1:21:54 AM] Makuro Mito: I find it stupid
[6/9/2010 1:21:57 AM] Makuro Mito: so I told them to tell him the truth
[6/9/2010 1:22:02 AM] Makuro Mito: that's all
[6/9/2010 1:22:02 AM] mustapusta: your mentality is terrible.
[6/9/2010 1:22:14 AM] Makuro Mito: I din't say his art is shit because I knew people like him can't really draw
[6/9/2010 1:22:16 AM] Makuro Mito: but at least he tried
[6/9/2010 1:22:19 AM] Makuro Mito: effort is seen
[6/9/2010 1:22:22 AM] mustapusta: and who is to say
[6/9/2010 1:22:24 AM] mustapusta: he tried or not
[6/9/2010 1:22:26 AM] mustapusta: other then himself
[6/9/2010 1:22:29 AM] Makuro Mito: because if he din't try
[6/9/2010 1:22:34 AM] Makuro Mito: then he wouldn't have thrown in more drawings
[6/9/2010 1:22:41 AM] mustapusta: Schrodinger's cat box theorm
[6/9/2010 1:22:41 AM] Aimee: you can put EFFORT into the simplest thing, but compare it to something more complex and its goin to look effortless. Therefore the simpler compositions get caled shit, and shunned because its not up to the same complexity as the other.
[6/9/2010 1:22:53 AM] mustapusta: You claim he puts in effort
[6/9/2010 1:22:55 AM] mustapusta: i say he doesn't
[6/9/2010 1:23:01 AM] Makuro Mito: okay
[6/9/2010 1:23:02 AM] mustapusta: both are true till he tells us
[6/9/2010 1:23:07 AM] mustapusta: if he did or not
[6/9/2010 1:23:15 AM] mustapusta: until then, no one should be able to say if he did or not
[6/9/2010 1:23:16 AM] Makuro Mito: which he can never tell us since he's long gone
[6/9/2010 1:23:21 AM] mustapusta: Devil's proof
[6/9/2010 1:23:36 AM] Makuro Mito: besides
[6/9/2010 1:23:42 AM] mustapusta: You can't proof that he didn't NOT put in effort
[6/9/2010 1:23:45 AM] Makuro Mito: Aimee, did you see what those people are doing
[6/9/2010 1:23:51 AM] Makuro Mito: apparently not.
[6/9/2010 1:23:56 AM] Makuro Mito: Like I've said
[6/9/2010 1:23:59 AM] Makuro Mito: copying each other
[6/9/2010 1:24:05 AM] Makuro Mito: using same photoshop brushes
[6/9/2010 1:24:37 AM] Makuro Mito: I din't say anything about people who really draw stuffs, those are different. but then again, those threads ain't really common in the graphics section
[6/9/2010 1:24:49 AM] Makuro Mito: and even if those are
[6/9/2010 1:25:00 AM] Makuro Mito: compare those with the other drawings they've posted up
[6/9/2010 1:25:10 AM] Makuro Mito: you can see how much effort is placed into it through something as simple as that
[6/9/2010 1:25:41 AM] mustapusta: inb4
[6/9/2010 1:25:43 AM] mustapusta: devil's proof
[6/9/2010 1:25:44 AM] Makuro Mito: inb4 wut
[6/9/2010 1:25:47 AM] mustapusta: and schrodinger's catbox theorm
[6/9/2010 1:25:48 AM] mustapusta: again
[6/9/2010 1:25:50 AM] Makuro Mito: nevertheless
[6/9/2010 1:25:56 AM] mustapusta: you can't prove until they prove
[6/9/2010 1:25:57 AM] Makuro Mito: it's one's opinion, I can tell you that
[6/9/2010 1:26:00 AM] Makuro Mito: but
[6/9/2010 1:26:01 AM] mustapusta: so your statement is void
[6/9/2010 1:26:04 AM] mustapusta: no buts
[6/9/2010 1:26:05 AM] Makuro Mito: BUT
[6/9/2010 1:26:07 AM] Makuro Mito: Many times
[6/9/2010 1:26:09 AM] Makuro Mito: I've told people
[6/9/2010 1:26:11 AM] Makuro Mito: they can do better
[6/9/2010 1:26:17 AM] mustapusta: obviously everyone can do better
[6/9/2010 1:26:17 AM] Makuro Mito: I've told them they could and can do better
[6/9/2010 1:26:18 AM] Makuro Mito: and they did
[6/9/2010 1:26:19 AM] mustapusta: CAPTAIN OBVIOUS
[6/9/2010 1:26:22 AM] Makuro Mito: that's all I'll say
[6/9/2010 1:26:25 AM] Makuro Mito: and if they can do better
[6/9/2010 1:26:26 AM] Aimee: only the creator can say if theyve put in effort.
[6/9/2010 1:26:26 AM] Makuro Mito: IF
[6/9/2010 1:26:29 AM] Makuro Mito: they can do better
[6/9/2010 1:26:33 AM] Makuro Mito: then there you have it
[6/9/2010 1:26:35 AM] mustapusta: no art is perfect
[6/9/2010 1:26:37 AM] Makuro Mito: effort placed into work
[6/9/2010 1:26:45 AM] mustapusta: seriously, no art is perfect.
[6/9/2010 1:26:48 AM] Aimee: theres always room for improvement, you can be named the greatest artist of all time, but could still be better.
[6/9/2010 1:26:50 AM] mustapusta: so there's always room for improvement
[6/9/2010 1:27:00 AM] mustapusta: hivemind
[6/9/2010 1:27:22 AM] Makuro Mito: nevertheless, if they can do better, effort is placed into what they've done isn't it?
[6/9/2010 1:27:27 AM] Makuro Mito: let me give you an example
[6/9/2010 1:27:28 AM] mustapusta: nope
[6/9/2010 1:27:31 AM] Makuro Mito: if I draw a hand like sausages
[6/9/2010 1:27:33 AM] Makuro Mito: someone says
[6/9/2010 1:27:34 AM] mustapusta: sometimes they can just do a sloppy job
[6/9/2010 1:27:37 AM] mustapusta: someone complains
[6/9/2010 1:27:39 AM] Makuro Mito: draw it better by doing this and that
[6/9/2010 1:27:43 AM] mustapusta: they sloppyly do better
[6/9/2010 1:27:43 AM] Makuro Mito: then
[6/9/2010 1:27:46 AM] Makuro Mito: I draw a better hand
[6/9/2010 1:27:48 AM] Makuro Mito: there
[6/9/2010 1:27:52 AM] Makuro Mito: you can see effort is placed
[6/9/2010 1:27:55 AM] Makuro Mito: but if I'm to draw
[6/9/2010 1:27:59 AM] Makuro Mito: another hand
[6/9/2010 1:28:00 AM] mustapusta: in other words
[6/9/2010 1:28:02 AM] Makuro Mito: that looks like sausages
[6/9/2010 1:28:03 AM] Makuro Mito: once again
[6/9/2010 1:28:05 AM] mustapusta: you're saying everything needs effort to do
[6/9/2010 1:28:09 AM] mustapusta: even starting a drawing = effort
[6/9/2010 1:28:15 AM] Aimee: ^ i agree.
[6/9/2010 1:28:23 AM] Makuro Mito: it's the amount of effort placed into it
[6/9/2010 1:28:27 AM] mustapusta: but you didn't specify
[6/9/2010 1:28:29 AM] Makuro Mito: of course everything takes effort
[6/9/2010 1:28:36 AM] Makuro Mito: ==
[6/9/2010 1:28:37 AM] mustapusta: you say "NO EFFORT"
[6/9/2010 1:28:37 AM] Makuro Mito: I've said
[6/9/2010 1:28:39 AM] Makuro Mito: a drawing that takes 2 hours
[6/9/2010 1:28:46 AM] Makuro Mito: can never win a drawing that takes 2 months
[6/9/2010 1:28:55 AM] mustapusta: a gawayno
[6/9/2010 1:28:58 AM] mustapusta: 2 months
[6/9/2010 1:28:59 AM] mustapusta: a drarin
[6/9/2010 1:29:00 AM] mustapusta: 2 hours
[6/9/2010 1:29:04 AM] Makuro Mito: you'll never know
[6/9/2010 1:29:20 AM] Makuro Mito: it's simple
[6/9/2010 1:29:20 AM] Aimee: you can put alot of effort into a sausage hand and then but alot of effort into a more acceptable hand, but the fact that your TRYING is effort.
[6/9/2010 1:29:44 AM] Makuro Mito: sheesh, you guys can never understand it unless I show it to you
[6/9/2010 1:29:50 AM] Makuro Mito: one day, when I find a suitable target
[6/9/2010 1:29:51 AM] mustapusta: you dont need to show us anything
[6/9/2010 1:29:53 AM] Makuro Mito: I'll tell it to you guys
[6/9/2010 1:29:57 AM] Makuro Mito: you guys can judge by yourself
[6/9/2010 1:30:03 AM] Aimee: i dont agree with u in this matter
[6/9/2010 1:30:22 AM] Aimee: ones persons art is another persons idea of shit.
[6/9/2010 1:30:28 AM] Aimee: art is based on opinion
[6/9/2010 1:31:10 AM] Makuro Mito: aimee, frequently draw on iscribble, then get a bunch of friends that always goes online and draw
[6/9/2010 1:31:14 AM] Makuro Mito: day after day after day
[6/9/2010 1:31:15 AM] Aimee: whether or not someone whos great at drawing or wutevr likes another persons work doesnt mean that its set in stone that the other person is crap
[6/9/2010 1:31:18 AM] Makuro Mito: see how much they've changed
[6/9/2010 1:31:24 AM] Makuro Mito: that all I'll say
[6/9/2010 1:31:30 AM] Makuro Mito: I've seen how people can draw
[6/9/2010 1:31:36 AM] Makuro Mito: I know what's the average most people can do
[6/9/2010 1:31:37 AM] Aimee: iscribble > art threads whats the difference
[6/9/2010 1:31:40 AM] Makuro Mito: or at least what people on iscribble
[6/9/2010 1:31:41 AM] Makuro Mito: can do
[6/9/2010 1:31:45 AM] Aimee: documenting improvement
[6/9/2010 1:31:48 AM] Aimee: in different forms
[6/9/2010 1:31:53 AM] Makuro Mito: now, iscribble is an international art website
[6/9/2010 1:31:56 AM] mustapusta: it doesn't matter
[6/9/2010 1:32:02 AM] mustapusta: art is based on opinions of people
[6/9/2010 1:32:09 AM] mustapusta: that is all
[6/9/2010 1:32:17 AM] Makuro Mito: so is school results isn't it?
[6/9/2010 1:32:21 AM] Makuro Mito: what about logic?
[6/9/2010 1:32:29 AM] mustapusta: school results are based on your answers and formulas
[6/9/2010 1:32:39 AM] mustapusta: why you mixing up things irrevelent
[6/9/2010 1:32:47 AM] mustapusta: 1+2 = 3
[6/9/2010 1:32:49 AM] Makuro Mito: and isn't anwsers naturally opinion of people?
[6/9/2010 1:32:56 AM] mustapusta: if you put 4, i'll instantly fail you
[6/9/2010 1:33:05 AM] mustapusta: it's that simple.
[6/9/2010 1:33:09 AM] Makuro Mito: but what if I can give you a reason why 1+2 = 4?
[6/9/2010 1:33:12 AM] Makuro Mito: and it makes logical sense?
[6/9/2010 1:33:18 AM] mustapusta: not possible
[6/9/2010 1:33:21 AM] mustapusta: because this is basic maths
[6/9/2010 1:33:30 AM] mustapusta: 1 + 2 is 3
[6/9/2010 1:33:37 AM] Aimee: those are facts
[6/9/2010 1:33:39 AM] Makuro Mito: what if I can come up with a very long but plausible formula that 1+2 = 4?
[6/9/2010 1:33:43 AM] Aimee: art is opinion based
[6/9/2010 1:33:49 AM] Aimee: you cant compare facts and opinion.
[6/9/2010 1:33:53 AM] Makuro Mito: There has to be a mean
[6/9/2010 1:33:58 AM] mustapusta: i would not entertain your silly explaination for 1+2=4
[6/9/2010 1:33:59 AM] Makuro Mito: do you not understand?
[6/9/2010 1:34:00 AM] Makuro Mito: a mean
[6/9/2010 1:34:08 AM] mustapusta: try turning your head 720 degrees
[6/9/2010 1:34:11 AM] mustapusta: "THERE HAS TO BE A WAY"
[6/9/2010 1:34:14 AM] Makuro Mito: no matter how crappy someone is there has to be a mean
[6/9/2010 1:34:17 AM] mustapusta: not everything is possible.
[6/9/2010 1:34:25 AM] Makuro Mito: it's like how people are going to have 10 fingers no matter what
[6/9/2010 1:34:27 AM] Makuro Mito: though there are people
[6/9/2010 1:34:29 AM] Makuro Mito: with 9 fingers
[6/9/2010 1:34:30 AM] Makuro Mito: or 8
[6/9/2010 1:34:32 AM] Makuro Mito: or even 11
[6/9/2010 1:34:34 AM] mustapusta: like you said
[6/9/2010 1:34:36 AM] mustapusta: people are different
[6/9/2010 1:34:37 AM] Makuro Mito: and 12
[6/9/2010 1:34:40 AM] mustapusta: different people
[6/9/2010 1:34:40 AM] Makuro Mito: THE MEAN IS 10
[6/9/2010 1:34:43 AM] mustapusta: different opinions
[6/9/2010 1:34:48 AM] Makuro Mito: art, is naturally the same thing
[6/9/2010 1:34:50 AM] mustapusta: even if the means is the same
[6/9/2010 1:34:53 AM] Makuro Mito: just much more vauge
[6/9/2010 1:34:55 AM] mustapusta: the actual number is different
[6/9/2010 1:34:59 AM] Makuro Mito: there has to be a mean, pusta
[6/9/2010 1:35:06 AM] Makuro Mito: a mean
[6/9/2010 1:35:11 AM] Makuro Mito: the average
[6/9/2010 1:35:11 AM] mustapusta: there is no medium or mean in art
[6/9/2010 1:35:16 AM] Makuro Mito: there is
[6/9/2010 1:35:25 AM] mustapusta: art is purely opinion based
[6/9/2010 1:35:29 AM] Makuro Mito: okay, if that's so, then how do you know it's shit or not?
[6/9/2010 1:35:31 AM] Makuro Mito: okay
[6/9/2010 1:35:32 AM] mustapusta: if 500 people say it sucks, does it mean it sucks?
[6/9/2010 1:35:34 AM] mustapusta: no
[6/9/2010 1:35:35 AM] Makuro Mito: then what is opinion based on?
[6/9/2010 1:35:40 AM] mustapusta: if you like your own art
[6/9/2010 1:35:42 AM] mustapusta: your art is good
[6/9/2010 1:35:44 AM] Makuro Mito: what, my dear friend, is opinion based on?
[6/9/2010 1:35:46 AM] Makuro Mito: art
[6/9/2010 1:35:47 AM] mustapusta: simple.
[6/9/2010 1:35:47 AM] Makuro Mito: nevertheless
[6/9/2010 1:35:51 AM] Makuro Mito: opinions are based on
[6/9/2010 1:35:53 AM] Makuro Mito: other art
[6/9/2010 1:35:53 AM] mustapusta: if you're satisfied with it
[6/9/2010 1:35:57 AM] mustapusta: it's ok
[6/9/2010 1:36:05 AM] Makuro Mito: so if I have a bunch of opinions
[6/9/2010 1:36:09 AM] Aimee: self satisfaction.
[6/9/2010 1:36:09 AM] Makuro Mito: they all say different things
[6/9/2010 1:36:10 AM] mustapusta: i'm satisfied with my pathetic pokemon sketches, because it's funny.
[6/9/2010 1:36:18 AM] Makuro Mito: that's the average
[6/9/2010 1:36:21 AM] Makuro Mito: the mean
[6/9/2010 1:36:22 AM] mustapusta: ....
[6/9/2010 1:36:23 AM] Makuro Mito: some might say it sucks
[6/9/2010 1:36:26 AM] Makuro Mito: some might say it's good
[6/9/2010 1:36:28 AM] mustapusta: there is no fucking average for art.
[6/9/2010 1:36:29 AM] mustapusta: seriously
[6/9/2010 1:36:37 AM] Makuro Mito: okay
[6/9/2010 1:36:40 AM] mustapusta: why do you insist that art has a way to be measured?
[6/9/2010 1:36:44 AM] Makuro Mito: then what do you base art against with
[6/9/2010 1:36:45 AM] Makuro Mito: because
[6/9/2010 1:36:48 AM] Makuro Mito: I judge art with other art
[6/9/2010 1:36:54 AM] Makuro Mito: on iscribble, loads of people draw together
[6/9/2010 1:36:56 AM] mustapusta: that's a opinion based comparison
[6/9/2010 1:37:05 AM] Makuro Mito: you can see the difference between the art, but
[6/9/2010 1:37:08 AM] mustapusta: anything opinion based will be biased
[6/9/2010 1:37:10 AM] Makuro Mito: THERE IS ALWAYS AN AVERAGE
[6/9/2010 1:37:11 AM] Makuro Mito: no matter what
[6/9/2010 1:37:14 AM] Aimee: you jusdge with an opininon, whether ur opinions revolves around the other art you have seen or not.
[6/9/2010 1:37:14 AM] mustapusta: fuck your average
[6/9/2010 1:37:21 AM] Makuro Mito: like how people can draw
[6/9/2010 1:37:22 AM] mustapusta: OTL
[6/9/2010 1:37:37 AM] Makuro Mito: nevertheless how slightly deformed their people can be
[6/9/2010 1:37:38 AM] Makuro Mito: they can draw
[6/9/2010 1:37:40 AM] Makuro Mito: that's the average
[6/9/2010 1:37:41 AM] mustapusta: THERE IS NO WAY TO JUDGE ART
[6/9/2010 1:37:49 AM] Aimee: its like reading a book - if you like it its your opinion. it can be a shit book to you, but somoene else will love it.
[6/9/2010 1:37:53 AM] mustapusta: JUST LIKE HOW THERE'S NO WAY TO FIND OUT WHO YOUR FUTURE WIFE AND KIDS ARE
[6/9/2010 1:37:53 AM] Makuro Mito: now, I'm judging through the deformation of the drawing
[6/9/2010 1:38:06 AM] Makuro Mito: I do have a vivid idea of how much deformation a average person could draw
[6/9/2010 1:38:10 AM] Makuro Mito: if this person draws perfectly
[6/9/2010 1:38:13 AM] mustapusta: that's you
[6/9/2010 1:38:14 AM] Makuro Mito: then yes, he is different
[6/9/2010 1:38:14 AM] mustapusta: not me
[6/9/2010 1:38:16 AM] mustapusta: i like my art
[6/9/2010 1:38:18 AM] mustapusta: my art is good
[6/9/2010 1:38:20 AM] Makuro Mito: if this person draws like a gawayno
[6/9/2010 1:38:22 AM] mustapusta: you don't like my art
[6/9/2010 1:38:24 AM] Makuro Mito: then that person is different
[6/9/2010 1:38:27 AM] mustapusta: that means your taste in art sucks
[6/9/2010 1:38:30 AM] Makuro Mito: nevertheless, the mean is still there
[6/9/2010 1:38:32 AM] mustapusta: i'm using your logic against you now
[6/9/2010 1:38:34 AM] mustapusta: defend please.
[6/9/2010 1:38:45 AM] mustapusta: your art sucks because the amount of art i see are different from yours
[6/9/2010 1:38:49 AM] mustapusta: so i must be right
[6/9/2010 1:38:54 AM] Makuro Mito: why not
[6/9/2010 1:38:59 AM] mustapusta: because the "MEAN" of your art is anime, while mine belongs to realistic drawings
[6/9/2010 1:39:05 AM] Makuro Mito: I wouldn't say my art doesn't suck
[6/9/2010 1:39:14 AM] mustapusta: so you admit your art sucks?
[6/9/2010 1:39:16 AM] Makuro Mito: it does suck, otherwise TToE would have been FINISHED already
[6/9/2010 1:39:20 AM] Makuro Mito: get it?
[6/9/2010 1:39:20 AM] Makuro Mito: Now
[6/9/2010 1:39:23 AM] Makuro Mito: since my art sucks
[6/9/2010 1:39:23 AM] mustapusta: ok that means my art is better then yours
[6/9/2010 1:39:29 AM] Aimee: if you compare with your own abilitiesw, you can look at someone elsees work and think 'i can do better' but it doesnt mean that the persons workt hat your judging is any less good that it would be if you dont believe you can do it.
[6/9/2010 1:39:33 AM] Makuro Mito: and your art is better than mine
[6/9/2010 1:39:38 AM] Makuro Mito: then you can start work on TToE
[6/9/2010 1:39:43 AM] Makuro Mito: and submit your stuffs up to kotarou
[6/9/2010 1:39:47 AM] mustapusta: why should i start TToE
[6/9/2010 1:39:47 AM] Makuro Mito: and then he can judge your stuffs
[6/9/2010 1:39:56 AM] Aimee: plz, wut is TToE?
[6/9/2010 1:39:57 AM] mustapusta: a statement i make doesn't force me to do work for others
[6/9/2010 1:40:02 AM] Makuro Mito: there once again
[6/9/2010 1:40:07 AM] Makuro Mito: there has to be an average
[6/9/2010 1:40:09 AM] mustapusta: i say a statement
[6/9/2010 1:40:09 AM] Makuro Mito: that's all
[6/9/2010 1:40:11 AM] mustapusta: it's a fact for me
[6/9/2010 1:40:13 AM] mustapusta: but it's not a fact for you
[6/9/2010 1:40:14 AM] Makuro Mito: no matter how vague it is
[6/9/2010 1:40:17 AM] Makuro Mito: there has to be an average
[6/9/2010 1:40:26 AM] mustapusta: understand the fact that everyone has opinions and not only YOUR opinion alone counts for everything
[6/9/2010 1:40:27 AM] Makuro Mito: do you not agree with that?
[6/9/2010 1:40:31 AM] mustapusta: no
[6/9/2010 1:40:32 AM] Aimee: if you say 'thats shit' thats not fact, its opinion.
[6/9/2010 1:40:35 AM] Makuro Mito: no matter how shitty someone can draw, or how good someone can draw
[6/9/2010 1:40:40 AM] Makuro Mito: there has to be an average
[6/9/2010 1:40:41 AM] mustapusta: understand the fact that everyone has opinions and not only YOUR opinion alone counts for everything
[6/9/2010 1:40:42 AM] mustapusta: understand the fact that everyone has opinions and not only YOUR opinion alone counts for everything
[6/9/2010 1:40:42 AM] mustapusta: understand the fact that everyone has opinions and not only YOUR opinion alone counts for everything
[6/9/2010 1:40:43 AM] mustapusta: understand the fact that everyone has opinions and not only YOUR opinion alone counts for everything
[6/9/2010 1:40:43 AM] mustapusta: understand the fact that everyone has opinions and not only YOUR opinion alone counts for everything
[6/9/2010 1:40:43 AM] mustapusta: understand the fact that everyone has opinions and not only YOUR opinion alone counts for everything
[6/9/2010 1:40:43 AM] mustapusta: understand the fact that everyone has opinions and not only YOUR opinion alone counts for everything
[6/9/2010 1:40:53 AM] mustapusta: i rest my case if you still can't understand that.
[6/9/2010 1:41:04 AM] Makuro Mito: nevertheless
[6/9/2010 1:41:10 AM] Makuro Mito: the average thing still counts
[6/9/2010 1:41:16 AM] mustapusta: fuck this
[6/9/2010 1:41:18 AM] mustapusta: i'm going to sleep.
[6/9/2010 1:41:21 AM] Makuro Mito: LOL
[6/9/2010 1:41:22 AM] Aimee: fuck the average.
[6/9/2010 1:41:23 AM] mustapusta: i'm sick and tired
[6/9/2010 1:41:27 AM] mustapusta: of your fucking
[6/9/2010 1:41:27 AM] mustapusta: AVERAGE
[6/9/2010 1:41:28 AM] mustapusta: and MEAN
[6/9/2010 1:41:29 AM] Makuro Mito: no, the average is important
[6/9/2010 1:41:32 AM] Makuro Mito: D:<
[6/9/2010 1:41:32 AM] mustapusta: this is not maths
[6/9/2010 1:41:33 AM] mustapusta: this is art
[6/9/2010 1:41:37 AM] mustapusta: art has no limits
[6/9/2010 1:41:38 AM] mustapusta: maths has
[6/9/2010 1:41:47 AM] mustapusta: you're mixing up 2 different topics together
[6/9/2010 1:41:47 AM] Makuro Mito: art has an average, otherwise everyone would be geniuses!
[6/9/2010 1:41:56 AM] mustapusta: everyone is a genius
[6/9/2010 1:41:59 AM] mustapusta: you're just not accepting it
[6/9/2010 1:42:01 AM] Makuro Mito: okay
[6/9/2010 1:42:02 AM] Makuro Mito: then tell me
[6/9/2010 1:42:08 AM] mustapusta: they are their own fan
[6/9/2010 1:42:10 AM] Makuro Mito: why people think gawayno's art suck
[6/9/2010 1:42:14 AM] Aimee: a crearive ability and an ability in a subject such as maths is different.
[6/9/2010 1:42:21 AM] Makuro Mito: lets just say most people
[6/9/2010 1:42:22 AM] Makuro Mito: including you
[6/9/2010 1:42:26 AM] mustapusta: because it's people's opinions
[6/9/2010 1:42:28 AM] Makuro Mito: okay
[6/9/2010 1:42:33 AM] Makuro Mito: so if everyone thinks that way
[6/9/2010 1:42:35 AM] mustapusta: simple enough, opinions
[6/9/2010 1:42:43 AM] Makuro Mito: don't you think it's good enough to say that his art is not up to par
[6/9/2010 1:42:48 AM] Makuro Mito: because of EVERYONE'S opinions?
[6/9/2010 1:42:48 AM] Aimee: no
[6/9/2010 1:42:54 AM] Makuro Mito: zz
[6/9/2010 1:42:56 AM] mustapusta: you're using peer pressure
[6/9/2010 1:43:00 AM] mustapusta: to force it into a fact
[6/9/2010 1:43:11 AM] mustapusta: like i said
[6/9/2010 1:43:13 AM] mustapusta: if he likes his drawing
[6/9/2010 1:43:16 AM] mustapusta: he's good to go
[6/9/2010 1:43:25 AM] mustapusta: it doesnt matter who likes or dislikes
[6/9/2010 1:43:28 AM] mustapusta: as long as you're satisfied with it
[6/9/2010 1:43:30 AM] mustapusta: it's art to you
[6/9/2010 1:43:32 AM] mustapusta: not to others
[6/9/2010 1:43:35 AM] Makuro Mito: okay, then if I'm using your logic
[6/9/2010 1:43:35 AM] Aimee: hear hear.
[6/9/2010 1:43:38 AM] Makuro Mito: I'll never improve
[6/9/2010 1:43:39 AM] Makuro Mito: ever
[6/9/2010 1:43:42 AM] Aimee: you will
[6/9/2010 1:43:44 AM] Makuro Mito: my art will stay
[6/9/2010 1:43:46 AM] Makuro Mito: the fucking same
[6/9/2010 1:43:47 AM] Makuro Mito: as 8 years ago
[6/9/2010 1:43:52 AM] mustapusta: that's because you think your art sucks
[6/9/2010 1:43:58 AM] Makuro Mito: or 6 years ago, where I've drawn that chibi crap
[6/9/2010 1:44:10 AM] mustapusta: no wait
[6/9/2010 1:44:13 AM] mustapusta: typo
[6/9/2010 1:44:20 AM] mustapusta: That's because you think your art DOESN'T suck
[6/9/2010 1:44:21 AM] Makuro Mito: (dance)
[6/9/2010 1:44:27 AM] Makuro Mito: shnao is online
[6/9/2010 1:44:30 AM] mustapusta: if you thought your art sucked, you would improve
[6/9/2010 1:44:34 AM] mustapusta: but you don't, so it doesn't improve
[6/9/2010 1:44:42 AM] mustapusta: people improve to be self-satisfied
[6/9/2010 1:44:46 AM] Makuro Mito: my logic is that if I have an average
[6/9/2010 1:44:49 AM] Aimee: lldkgmndkjgns
[6/9/2010 1:44:50 AM] Makuro Mito: I know what I need to work towards
[6/9/2010 1:44:54 AM] mustapusta: Art is the process or product of deliberately arranging elements in a way to affect the senses or emotions. It encompasses a diverse range of human activities, creations, and modes of expression, including music, literature, film, photography, sculpture, and paintings. The meaning of art is explored in a branch of philosophy known as aesthetics.
[6/9/2010 1:45:00 AM] Makuro Mito: therefore I can improve
[6/9/2010 1:45:27 AM] mustapusta: you're using wacked logic
[6/9/2010 1:45:34 AM] mustapusta: there is no "means" or "average"
[6/9/2010 1:45:37 AM] mustapusta: you improve because you want to
[6/9/2010 1:45:58 AM] Makuro Mito: I'm basing my art against what I can see
[6/9/2010 1:46:02 AM] Makuro Mito: and what i know people can do
[6/9/2010 1:46:10 AM] mustapusta: how the fuck do you know what people can do?
[6/9/2010 1:46:14 AM] mustapusta: and what they CAN'T do?
[6/9/2010 1:46:17 AM] mustapusta: there is no basis for that argument
[6/9/2010 1:46:48 AM] Aimee: someone can show u a drawing they did of an eye, you can then think 'this eprson cant draw a face' ebcause u havent seen them try it.
[6/9/2010 1:47:11 AM] Makuro Mito: I know what most people can do through an average of what I can see on iscribble
[6/9/2010 1:47:15 AM] mustapusta: you are basing your arguments on ASSUMPTIONS
[6/9/2010 1:47:23 AM] Makuro Mito: Once again, I'll say this
[6/9/2010 1:47:23 AM] mustapusta: which is also the word ASS u me
[6/9/2010 1:47:45 AM] Makuro Mito: the average thing is already set into my mindset, it is how I improve
[6/9/2010 1:47:55 AM] mustapusta: that's what you assume
[6/9/2010 1:48:02 AM] Makuro Mito: I can't assume for myself
[6/9/2010 1:48:02 AM] mustapusta: and that's not what we should be assuming
[6/9/2010 1:48:06 AM] Aimee: the average in your head isnt in existence for everyone one. which is why it is YOUR opinion.
[6/9/2010 1:48:13 AM] Aimee: -one.
[6/9/2010 1:48:43 AM] Makuro Mito: nevertheless, no matter how random something is
[6/9/2010 1:48:47 AM] mustapusta: when one criticises, he is trying to say "THIS DOESN'T PLEASE MY EYE, MAKE IT PLEASE MY EYE"
[6/9/2010 1:48:54 AM] mustapusta: which also means how they percieve it to be
[6/9/2010 1:48:56 AM] Makuro Mito: don't tell me you've never tried to make stuffs an average?
[6/9/2010 1:48:57 AM] mustapusta: how they want it to be
[6/9/2010 1:49:03 AM] Makuro Mito: then how do you predict stuffs?
[6/9/2010 1:49:07 AM] Makuro Mito: like weather
[6/9/2010 1:49:08 AM] mustapusta: like you said
[6/9/2010 1:49:09 AM] mustapusta: predict
[6/9/2010 1:49:12 AM] mustapusta: weather = machines
[6/9/2010 1:49:18 AM] mustapusta: predictions are assumptions
[6/9/2010 1:49:22 AM] Makuro Mito: Prediction is based on an average, yes?
[6/9/2010 1:49:24 AM] mustapusta: no
[6/9/2010 1:49:25 AM] Aimee: no
[6/9/2010 1:49:25 AM] mustapusta: assumptions
[6/9/2010 1:49:33 AM] Makuro Mito: my prediction is based on an average
[6/9/2010 1:49:36 AM] Makuro Mito: I'm different then
[6/9/2010 1:49:38 AM] mustapusta: "my"
[6/9/2010 1:49:44 AM] mustapusta: keyword
[6/9/2010 1:49:45 AM] mustapusta: "my"[6/9/2010 1:49:49 AM] Makuro Mito: lolol
[6/9/2010 1:49:55 AM] Makuro Mito: give me a sec, gonna grab some chocolate
[6/9/2010 1:50:07 AM] mustapusta: actually this conversation would have ended ages ago
[6/9/2010 1:50:09 AM] mustapusta: if i just said
[6/9/2010 1:50:09 AM] Aimee: roll a dice. you can predict it will land on a 6. but do an experiment, roll it 10 times and it can land on an AVERAGE of 3. therefore your prediciton was wrond.
[6/9/2010 1:50:20 AM] mustapusta: "MY"
[6/9/2010 1:50:32 AM] mustapusta: everything with "MY" = opinion
[6/9/2010 1:50:35 AM] Aimee: im going to eat dinner. afk~
[6/9/2010 1:50:40 AM] mustapusta: I AM STUCK
[6/9/2010 1:51:07 AM] Makuro Mito: LOL
[6/9/2010 1:51:09 AM] Makuro Mito: back
[6/9/2010 1:54:35 AM] Makuro Mito: If I have a coin that flips and lands on heads an average of 75 times out of a hundred, I've flipped it 100 times for at least 10 different tests. On the 11th test of the 101th coin flip, I say that I would predict that it lands on heads because of the 75 average. That is what I'm basing my prediction on.
Not guess work, but more of an imaginary number that's not really supported by anything but practical tests.
[6/9/2010 1:55:04 AM] mustapusta: you would also ASSUME it'll land on the 75 average
[6/9/2010 1:55:06 AM] Makuro Mito: It's true that the coin can land on a tails, sure. But with the 75/100 heads for 10 tries, even you would say it's going to land on a heads yes?
[6/9/2010 1:55:09 AM] mustapusta: thus, assumption
[6/9/2010 1:55:48 AM] Makuro Mito: nevertheless, assumption isn't all that crap people would say it is
[6/9/2010 1:55:58 AM] Makuro Mito: if it isn't, BP would have sealed that shithole already
[6/9/2010 1:56:09 AM] mustapusta: assumptions
[6/9/2010 1:57:21 AM] Makuro Mito: okay, I agree that its assumption.
[6/9/2010 1:57:29 AM] mustapusta: ok case closed
[6/9/2010 1:57:33 AM] Makuro Mito: but then, you would rather do everything practical?
[6/9/2010 1:57:47 AM] mustapusta: define everything
[6/9/2010 1:57:56 AM] Makuro Mito: okay, you can go flip a coin 400,000 times and tell me if it lands on a head or a tails
[6/9/2010 1:57:58 AM] mustapusta: assuming you meant breathing
[6/9/2010 1:58:13 AM] Makuro Mito: or would you rather assume that the 400,00th coin flip would give me a heads?
[6/9/2010 1:58:20 AM] Makuro Mito: or we'll put it in TF2 terms
[6/9/2010 1:58:29 AM] Makuro Mito: I assume that I'll get a hat by the end of next week
[6/9/2010 1:58:33 AM] mustapusta: tf2 is also based on chance
[6/9/2010 1:58:47 AM] Makuro Mito: are you going to wait till next week till I get my hat and tell me that I'm right?
[6/9/2010 1:58:48 AM] mustapusta: you assume, but that's an assumption
[6/9/2010 1:58:54 AM] mustapusta: why yes
[6/9/2010 1:58:56 AM] mustapusta: duh
[6/9/2010 1:58:57 AM] Makuro Mito: no.
[6/9/2010 1:59:01 AM] Makuro Mito: it's like weather
[6/9/2010 1:59:01 AM] mustapusta: that's your opinion
[6/9/2010 1:59:05 AM] Makuro Mito: sometimes, you need to know
[6/9/2010 1:59:07 AM] mustapusta: you asked me for my opinion
[6/9/2010 1:59:08 AM] Makuro Mito: before hand
[6/9/2010 1:59:09 AM] mustapusta: i gave mine
[6/9/2010 1:59:13 AM] mustapusta: you overwrote it with yours
[6/9/2010 1:59:17 AM] mustapusta: no point in answering yes?
[6/9/2010 1:59:29 AM] Makuro Mito: the whole point is that assuming is what most people would do
[6/9/2010 1:59:31 AM] Makuro Mito: that's all
[6/9/2010 1:59:41 AM] mustapusta: and art is based on opinions
[6/9/2010 1:59:52 AM] Makuro Mito: opinions are based on other stuffs
[6/9/2010 1:59:59 AM] Makuro Mito: like what you would prefer
[6/9/2010 2:00:02 AM] Makuro Mito: color choices
[6/9/2010 2:00:02 AM] mustapusta: opinions are BASED ON THE INDIVIDUALS
[6/9/2010 2:00:06 AM] Makuro Mito: etcetc
[6/9/2010 2:00:06 AM] mustapusta: not stuffs
[6/9/2010 2:00:12 AM] mustapusta: INDIVIDUALS
[6/9/2010 2:00:22 AM] mustapusta: so there is no means or medium to art[6/9/2010 2:00:33 AM] Makuro Mito: and if you take all the opinions and gather it together, you'll get an average to that piece of art's comment yes?
[6/9/2010 2:00:38 AM] mustapusta: no
[6/9/2010 2:00:40 AM] Makuro Mito: if i have 1K people saying it's alright
[6/9/2010 2:00:42 AM] mustapusta: it's still opinions
[6/9/2010 2:00:45 AM] Makuro Mito: and then 3 people saying it's fantastic
[6/9/2010 2:00:48 AM] mustapusta: there is no right or wrong
[6/9/2010 2:00:49 AM] mustapusta: to art.
[6/9/2010 2:00:49 AM] Makuro Mito: and 2 people saying it's bad
[6/9/2010 2:00:56 AM] Makuro Mito: there's no right or wrong
[6/9/2010 2:00:58 AM] mustapusta: IT'S BAD AND FANTASTIC AT THE SAME TIME
[6/9/2010 2:01:02 AM] mustapusta: BECAUSE THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG
[6/9/2010 2:01:12 AM] Makuro Mito: fffffff
[6/9/2010 2:01:16 AM] Makuro Mito: you don't understand
[6/9/2010 2:01:17 AM] mustapusta: CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT 2 FACTS CAN EXIST AT THE SAME TIME?
[6/9/2010 2:01:40 AM] Makuro Mito: there is no right or wrong and having an average can exist is weird
[6/9/2010 2:01:52 AM] mustapusta: it's art
[6/9/2010 2:02:13 AM] Makuro Mito: ffffff
[6/9/2010 2:02:30 AM] mustapusta: there is a noah's arc, there is no noah's arc
[6/9/2010 2:02:37 AM] mustapusta: we can't rule both out till we find it
[6/9/2010 2:02:43 AM] Makuro Mito: There is no noah's arc because I ate it
[6/9/2010 2:02:44 AM] mustapusta: if we find it, noah's arc is real
[6/9/2010 2:02:45 AM] Makuro Mito: and I can prove it
[6/9/2010 2:02:52 AM] mustapusta: if we can't find it, argument still stands
[6/9/2010 2:02:52 AM] Aimee: even if ''average'' in art exists. everyones average is different, which is why it is OPINION which you judge art with, not average,mean, or whatever other term you can pull out ur ass.
[6/9/2010 2:02:56 AM] Makuro Mito: you can test my shit tomorrow, it tasted like wood
[6/9/2010 2:03:03 AM] Makuro Mito: lol
[6/9/2010 2:03:08 AM] Makuro Mito: which is why
[6/9/2010 2:03:20 AM] Makuro Mito: you never seen any of the proper game sprites for TToE
[6/9/2010 2:03:34 AM] Makuro Mito: no matter how hard I try, I'm not satisified because it's not up to my average
[6/9/2010 2:03:35 AM] Makuro Mito: that's all
[6/9/2010 2:03:43 AM] Makuro Mito: nevertheless, we'll go back to the first topic
[6/9/2010 2:03:45 AM] Makuro Mito: do you agree
[6/9/2010 2:03:48 AM] Makuro Mito: that graphics forum
[6/9/2010 2:03:53 AM] Makuro Mito: requires more effort into it?
[6/9/2010 2:03:54 AM] mustapusta: so why forcing your truth to us]
[6/9/2010 2:04:14 AM] Makuro Mito: It's just a simple Yes and No answer
[6/9/2010 2:04:21 AM] Makuro Mito: anyone can answer it
[6/9/2010 2:04:59 AM] Makuro Mito: don't have to explain to me why you say yes or no, just yes OR no would do, but not both, based on YOUR average and what you currently see in that particular forums
[6/9/2010 2:05:15 AM] Makuro Mito: do you think that the graphics forums need more effort placed into it
[6/9/2010 2:05:19 AM] Aimee: ceertain elements such as the signarute threads or SOTW are created for enjoyment, community and for generoisty towards other members. Not a showcase of skills for people to be dissed for. Contributing to an event bringing people in the community together.
People have art threads to get advice opinion, or just to express what they enjoy.
[6/9/2010 2:05:52 AM] Aimee: i think there is effort coming in bounds in that case
[6/9/2010 2:05:55 AM] Aimee: so no.
[6/9/2010 2:06:01 AM] Makuro Mito: alright
[6/9/2010 2:06:06 AM] Makuro Mito: then let's just keep it that way
[6/9/2010 2:06:10 AM] Makuro Mito: see, that's simple
[6/9/2010 2:06:28 AM] Makuro Mito: now, we'll go back even further, back to noper and his rant about not winning
[6/9/2010 2:06:48 AM] Makuro Mito: that
[6/9/2010 2:06:50 AM] Makuro Mito: is his fault
[6/9/2010 2:06:54 AM] Makuro Mito: that's all
[6/9/2010 2:07:31 AM] Aimee: it doesnt excuse his rudeness towards those contributing to events which are there to bring people together and are there for FUN.
[6/9/2010 2:07:55 AM] Aimee: whether he wins or not, he shouldnt have the attitude that he DESERVES to win.
[6/9/2010 2:08:00 AM] Aimee: over anyone else.
[6/9/2010 2:08:12 AM] Makuro Mito: no one deserves to win that SOTW
[6/9/2010 2:08:15 AM] Makuro Mito: it's just votes
[6/9/2010 2:08:19 AM] Makuro Mito: if we vote for you
[6/9/2010 2:08:23 AM] Makuro Mito: be glad that we vote for you
[6/9/2010 2:08:24 AM] mustapusta: now you see how many topics you changed away from the original point?