Apr 18 12:11:38 <hypervise> VileGent, reminded me of my other issue in Fedora12. You don't by chance know anything about the 'Vile' editor? It is my favorite editor but it isn't stable on my Fedora12.
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Apr 18 12:15:51 <mwilson> hypervise: And where did you get what you installed on F12?
Apr 18 12:16:08 <hypervise> mwilson, you mean Vile?
Apr 18 12:19:31 <hypervise> mwilson, ?
Apr 18 12:19:52 <mwilson> I asked you a question, you don't seem to think you need to answer it.
Apr 18 12:20:07 <hypervise> no I didn't understand which question.
Apr 18 12:21:37 <mwilson> <sigh> You either built it yourself, or you installed a package meant for some other distribution. Which is it? I won't even try to get into guessing what you think you mean by "not stable".
Apr 18 12:22:15 <mwilson> I didn't have any problem with Fedora's X seeing a multi-button mouse. Then I trashed the mouse, because it was annoying.
Apr 18 12:22:23 <hypervise> mwilson, if you were asking about Vile... I compiled it from source. Version 9.7. Yea I wouldn't want you to waste your time if you've not used it. I bet someone has compiled it though :)
Apr 18 12:22:30 <hypervise> .. and got it to work.
Apr 18 12:23:16 <mwilson> Funny, I don't remember saying I hadn't used it, but I'm sure you hear things differently than everyone else. So, does anyone get to know what "not stable" means?
Apr 18 12:26:06 <hypervise> mwilson, OK. I will explain more. ...
Apr 18 12:27:32 <hypervise> I was able to compile the same Vile 9.7 source under my old Fedora 9 x86_64 install. My new Fedora 12 x86_64 install it compiles and installs but...
Apr 18 12:28:47 <hypervise> when I use it and do any sort of yank or delete command it just hangs. I can't do anything other than kill it. I suspect there is some bug that gets exercised on the 64-bit Fedora. But until I get deeper I have no idea.
Apr 18 12:29:36 <hypervise> I have compiled this on a x86_64 machine at work (SUSE ???). That is why I was surprised it didnt' work on Fedora.
Apr 18 12:33:51 <hypervise> mwilson, do you use vile now? VIM seems to be the widely used default 'vi' editor. But I still like Vile. Especially the search highlighting.
Apr 18 12:36:39 <mwilson> <shrug> I don't use vile on *nix any longer, I occasionally use it on OS X.
Apr 18 12:39:14 <hypervise> I'm not smart enough to debug this problem so I may have to give up on it in F12. Only other idea I have is to find older versions than 9.7 and try to compile.
Apr 18 12:40:15 <mwilson> <shrug> It works here. I built it with: ./configure --enable-plugins --with-perl --with-x --with-ncurses --with-iconv
Apr 18 12:41:12 <mwilson> Presumably you haven't tried the standard troubleshooting steps... starting it with an empty config, turning off coloring, etc
Apr 18 12:42:21 <fenris02> why would you use vile instead of vim? (not to start wars, just really curious)
Apr 18 12:42:30 <mwilson> Most people use vim because it's GTK and Xft, not because of a particular preference.
Apr 18 12:43:01 <hypervise> fenris02, there are subtle nice features. VIM used to not have completion. but I think it does now.
Apr 18 12:43:10 <mwilson> fenris02: vile isn't as modal as vi, while still being modal.
Apr 18 12:43:27 <mwilson> hypervise: Uh, vim has had completion for the last several years.
Apr 18 12:43:35 <fenris02> mwilson, like gvim is only partially modal? or less so than that?
Apr 18 12:43:47 <mwilson> fenris02: gvim is still modal.
Apr 18 12:44:00 <hypervise> well I've been using Vile for like 14 years so I don't check up on VIM every year.
Apr 18 12:44:07 <hypervise> ....hoping.
Apr 18 12:44:30 <mwilson> hypervise: The idea is to get the work done, not to have editor wars. If you like vile, use vile.
Apr 18 12:45:03 <hypervise> like me said
Apr 18 12:46:54 <fenris02> i'm not finding vile in the fedora repo. was it pulled, or never accepted?
Apr 18 12:47:23 <mwilson> I think it was dropped back in the Core days. Are any of the vi clones other than vim and nvi even in there any more?
Apr 18 12:48:40 <fenris02> dunno. i've been using vim for ages. early 90s
Apr 18 12:49:30 <hypervise> mwilson, so with --with-perl, for me the Perl part doesn't compile: ./perl.xs:115:20: error: EXTERN.h: No such file or directory
Apr 18 12:49:50 <fenris02> hypervise, yum provides \*/EXTERN.h
Apr 18 12:50:04 <hypervise> fenris02, wow thanks!
Apr 18 12:50:06 <mwilson> Yes, you have to have perl development packages installed, that should be obvious.
Apr 18 12:50:24 <hypervise> mwilson, why is every other comment of yours condescending?
Apr 18 12:50:28 <fenris02> mwilson, pfft. better to show him how to find what he's looking for
Apr 18 12:50:58 <hypervise> not everyone can keep up with thousands of packages. and what isn't installed now a days.
Apr 18 12:51:22 <fenris02> hypervise, if you're building something, you will need a bunch of -devel packages. that's a given.
Apr 18 12:51:40 <hypervise> sounds good.
Apr 18 12:52:39 <fenris02> mock-build ftw. not -devel packages ever installed proper.
Apr 18 12:53:07 <hypervise> but that is not what I remember doing before. that's all. I suppose this Fedora12 install I must not have added as many dev packages as I did in the past.
Apr 18 12:54:26 <hypervise> I used to add almost everything but it isn't on the DVD iso so you have to remember to add things later and I have a slow internet connection (If you want to understand where I'm coming from)
Apr 18 12:54:39 <mwilson> Is this vile or xvile that hangs up? If xvile, *which* xvile?
Apr 18 12:54:50 <fenris02> hypervise, you can use the dvd as a repo too.
Apr 18 12:55:36 <hypervise> mwilson, I usually just compile 'vile' and not 'xvile'
Apr 18 12:55:41 <hypervise> this was 'vile'
Apr 18 12:56:54 <hypervise> mwilson, fenris02: anyway, I'm trying to do what you suggested now. and see how that compiles and runs. Thanks!
Apr 18 12:58:16 <hypervise> BTW: if you want to understand an idiot like me... I thought many of these dev packages were for 'dev' of the given tool.
Apr 18 12:59:00 <hypervise> now I understand better.
Apr 18 13:00:25 <mwilson> Mandriva still ships it, it's probably meant for that.
Apr 18 13:12:46 <hypervise> I do have perl-devel installed and EXTERN.h is there.
Apr 18 13:14:23 <hypervise> I can probably add the include path but I wonder how mwilson's build found them without it.
Apr 18 13:20:10 <fenris02> OpenPKG appears to be at least as horrid as MDK src.rpm's ... looks like this is a "start fresh" spec
Apr 18 13:23:14 <fenris02> hypervise, yep. built here too. nothing more than the standard junk needed.
Apr 18 13:33:56 * fenris02 needs a victim ^W volunteer to test a vile package
Apr 18 13:34:41 <fenris02> DiscordianUK, basic stuff. does it run? any packaging problems, or does it work like it should?
Apr 18 13:35:15 <DiscordianUK> fenris02 I'll give it a go on F11
Apr 18 13:35:31 <fenris02> DiscordianUK, k. give me a few to build an f11 version.
Apr 18 13:35:44 <mwilson> fenris02: What did you build? An ncurses vile? If X11, *which* xvile?
Apr 18 13:36:17 <fenris02> mwilson, ../SRPMS/vile-9.7zc-1.fc12.src.rpm ... just your basic %configure / make thing. i dont know :)
Apr 18 13:36:38 <fenris02> mwilson, if you have suggestions, i can fix the spec, or you can
Apr 18 13:36:41 <DiscordianUK> Can't say I've ever used vile but I can try it, I know vi
Apr 18 13:37:11 <mwilson> fenris02: I'm not sure what vile's configure does, without other options. I *think* it builds a termcap vile without X11 support.
Apr 18 13:37:52 <DiscordianUK> I tried to build an rpm here from the spec file in the vile.tar,gz
Apr 18 13:38:31 <DiscordianUK> But it grumbled about the version of flex I have
Apr 18 13:40:43 <mwilson> Yeah, you can't build internal plugins
Apr 18 13:40:57 <mwilson> Internal filters, rather
Apr 18 13:41:00 <hypervise> mwilson, fenris02: I finally got the vile 9.7 (not that rpm source) to build by providing include and link path: /usr/lib64/perl5/5.10.0/x86_64-linux-thread-multi/CORE
Apr 18 13:41:31 <hypervise> ...the simple things that didn't work before now work.
Apr 18 13:44:21 <DiscordianUK> where is .. pointing to?
Apr 18 13:47:39 <fenris02> DiscordianUK, mock-building f11 version worked here too.
Apr 18 13:48:06 <DiscordianUK> Can I grab the src.rpm?
Apr 18 13:48:21 <DiscordianUK> or the binary if you have it
Apr 18 13:48:49 <silentusr> I assume vile is "vi like emacs"?
Apr 18 13:49:03 <DiscordianUK> Correct
Apr 18 13:49:03 <fenris02> silentusr, your guess is as good as mine
Apr 18 13:49:20 <fenris02> DiscordianUK, yes, it's on my fedorapeople/SRPMS
Apr 18 13:49:29 <DiscordianUK> it's vi with extra buffers a la emacs
Apr 18 13:52:50 <fenris02> oooh. how wiggy.
Apr 18 13:56:12 * DiscordianUK builds vile
Apr 18 13:58:54 <fenris02> mwilson, rebuilt using %configure --enable-plugins --with-perl --with-x --with-ncurses --with-iconv
Apr 18 13:59:58 <fenris02> and it's a terribly generic spec file
Apr 18 14:11:30 <DiscordianUK> I built a f11 binary rpm fenris02 , which breaks on yum --localinstall on f11 with broken dependencies on perl stuff
Apr 18 14:13:20 <fenris02> DiscordianUK, huh.
Apr 18 14:14:19 <DiscordianUK> Missing Dependency: perl(mime.pl) is needed by package vile-9.7zc-1.fc11.i586 (/vile-9.7zc-1.fc11.i586)
Apr 18 14:14:29 <DiscordianUK> and others
Apr 18 14:15:20 <DiscordianUK> I'll play with it on F12 tomorrow
Apr 18 14:16:00 * DiscordianUK tries by forcing the install
Apr 18 14:17:27 <hypervise> fenris02, DiscordianUK: I see similar dependency problem... http://pastebin.org/157733
Apr 18 14:18:14 <DiscordianUK> Similar on F11
Apr 18 14:18:21 <hypervise> I'm on F12
Apr 18 14:18:54 <VileGent> hypervise, yum update --skip-broken
Apr 18 14:22:05 <DiscordianUK> vile is a funny beast
Apr 18 14:24:07 <hypervise> VileGent, maybe I don't get it, but these dependency errors are probably just because fenris02 SRPM needs to include those dependencies? (forgive my ignorance of how RPM specs work)
Apr 18 14:24:54 <DiscordianUK> I'm sure fenris02 would appreciate feedback on what dependencies it needs
Apr 18 14:26:04 <hypervise> DiscordianUK, fenris02: yea and unfortunately there might be more because I probably had some perl modules already
Apr 18 14:31:10 * [R] (~rbox@unaffiliated/rbox) has joined #fedora
Apr 18 14:50:43 <hypervise> DiscordianUK, fenris02, mwilson: just one stinky detail on the RPM. When the --with-x builds it doesn't build the non-X version 'vile'. I never dug into the configure/build to know why that choice was made by the developers.
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