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[16:30:06] Server Pokemon Perfect RBY - NetBattle v.1.0.52
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[16:30:06] Currently 3 trainer(s) online, with a maximum of 255 trainers.
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[16:30:06] Flood count is set to 25
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[16:30:06] Your team's power is: 71%
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[16:30:08] WARNING! This server uses a modified database.
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[16:30:09] Welcome Message: Welcome to Pokemon Perfect RBY
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[16:30:09] Server Website: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Pokemon_Perfect/index/
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[16:30:09] *** Welcome to Pokemon Perfect RBY server! The best server for your True RBY needs. Type /commands to see the server commands.
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[16:30:09] *** In order to collect usage stats, we currently require sleep clause, freeze clause and evasion clause to be on at all times.
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[16:30:09] *** Our advanced connect is pokemonperfect.game-server.cc
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[16:30:25]
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[16:30:25] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤:
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[16:30:25]
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[16:30:25] *** Pokemon Perfect RBY Server Commands
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[16:30:25]
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[16:30:25] Type /Usage - to see the pokemon usage stats.
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[16:30:25]
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[16:30:25] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤:
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[16:30:25]
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[16:30:31] *** Pokemon Usage Rankings ***
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[16:30:32] #1: 113 - Chansey - used in battle 33 times!
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[16:30:32] #2: 128 - Tauros - used in battle 31 times!
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[16:30:32] #3: 103 - Exeggutor - used in battle 29 times!
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[16:30:32] #4: 94 - Gengar - used in battle 25 times!
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[16:30:32] #5: 121 - Starmie - used in battle 19 times!
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[16:30:32] #6: 143 - Snorlax - used in battle 18 times!
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[16:30:32] #7: 65 - Alakazam - used in battle 11 times!
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[16:30:32] #8: 145 - Zapdos - used in battle 8 times!
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[16:30:32] #9: 131 - Lapras - used in battle 7 times!
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[16:30:32] #10: 112 - Rhydon - used in battle 6 times!
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[16:30:32] #11: 76 - Golem - used in battle 5 times!
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[16:30:32] #12: 149 - Dragonite - used in battle 5 times!
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[16:30:32] #13: 124 - Jynx - used in battle 4 times!
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[16:30:32] #14: 53 - Persian - used in battle 3 times!
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[16:30:32] #15: 80 - Slowbro - used in battle 2 times!
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[16:30:32] #16: 144 - Articuno - used in battle 2 times!
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[16:30:32] #17: 6 - Charizard - used in battle 1 times!
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[16:30:32] #18: 18 - Pidgeot - used in battle 1 times!
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[16:30:32] #19: 34 - Nidoking - used in battle 1 times!
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[16:30:32] #20: 51 - Dugtrio - used in battle 1 times!
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[16:30:33] Atavist of Logic: type /usage to see usage
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[16:30:39] t3h Icy: I just did
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[16:30:42] Atavist of Logic: cool
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[16:30:47] t3h Icy: umm
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[16:31:00] t3h Icy: the Usage thing isn't really handy though
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[16:31:11] t3h Icy: interesting, but not handy
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[16:31:13] Atavist of Logic: It's how the tiers are being defined
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[16:31:17] t3h Icy: lol
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[16:31:21] t3h Icy: that's stupid
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[16:31:25] t3h Icy: you can't base tiers on usage
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[16:31:31] t3h Icy: it's related, but not directly
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[16:31:35] Atavist of Logic: uh no, it's the most logical approach
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[16:31:41] t3h Icy: so basically
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[16:31:42] kingzeldero RBY signed off.
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[16:31:52] t3h Icy: you're telling me Pidgeot and Dugtrio are the same value?
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[16:31:53] t3h Icy: ROFL
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[16:32:00] t3h Icy: and Rhydon > Golem
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[16:32:02] t3h Icy: lolololol
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[16:32:21] t3h Icy: that doesn't work
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[16:32:22] Atavist of Logic: I don't see why you are laughing
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[16:32:25] CHARIZARD signed on.
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[16:32:30] Atavist of Logic: you obviously don't understand basic logic
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[16:32:31] t3h Icy: because that's obviously incorrect
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[16:32:40] t3h Icy: so what you're saying is
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[16:32:52] t3h Icy: if a group of players came here and started using Magikarp a lot
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[16:33:01] t3h Icy: that would mean Magikarp is one of the best?
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[16:33:10] t3h Icy: that's incredibly flawed
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[16:33:12] Atavist of Logic: Well people play to win usually
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[16:33:21] t3h Icy: like Mr.Pidgeot user?
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[16:33:25] CHARIZARD signed off.
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[16:33:25] t3h Icy: also
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[16:33:29] Atavist of Logic: He was 1 noob
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[16:33:34] Atavist of Logic: You suck at arguments
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[16:33:40] t3h Icy: Chansey isn't the best Pokemon
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[16:33:44] Atavist of Logic: you are such a pseudo-intellectual
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[16:33:46] t3h Icy: definitely one of the top 4
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[16:33:52] t3h Icy: but not first
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[16:33:52] Atavist of Logic: you don't even understand what stats are
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[16:34:01] Atavist of Logic: how they are linked to probability
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[16:34:20] Atavist of Logic: If you chose to be so ignorant, why should I explain it to you?
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[16:34:24] t3h Icy: yes, but once you reach a certain level, it becomes more Rock-Paper-Scissors like
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[16:34:40] t3h Icy: Chansey definitely is not the best OU Pokemon
83.
[16:34:43] Atavist of Logic: Pokemon is always about teams.
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[16:35:01] Atavist of Logic: No one ever said it decided that
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[16:35:11] Atavist of Logic: It's niche is the most important though
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[16:35:14] t3h Icy: [16:31:13] Atavist of Logic: It's how the tiers are being defined
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[16:35:20] Atavist of Logic: yes
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[16:35:33] Atavist of Logic: Tiers mean placeholders
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[16:35:36] Atavist of Logic: look it up
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[16:35:37] Atavist of Logic: idiot
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[16:35:50] t3h Icy: Tiers is a list based on how useful said Pokemon is
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[16:35:59] Atavist of Logic: exactly
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[16:36:00] t3h Icy: Chansey is currently the most used
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[16:36:01] t3h Icy: but not the best
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[16:36:13] t3h Icy: so then this list as it stands is incorrect
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[16:36:14] Atavist of Logic: Which doesn't disagree with anything I've said.
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[16:36:20] Atavist of Logic: How?
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[16:36:26] Atavist of Logic: You don't make any sense.
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[16:36:38] t3h Icy: how exactly are you defining tiers?
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[16:36:45] t3h Icy: are you planning to have a ranked order?
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[16:36:50] Atavist of Logic: How most sensible communities do
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[16:36:51] t3h Icy: or just OU, BL, UU, etc?
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[16:37:11] Atavist of Logic: Yes a tier spectrum
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[16:37:31] t3h Icy: well if you're simply grouping, the list works more effectively
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[16:37:38] t3h Icy: if you're trying to make a ranked list, this idea is flawed
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[16:37:44] t3h Icy: even if you're doing the former
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[16:37:51] t3h Icy: Pidgeot isn't OU or BL at all
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[16:37:57] Atavist of Logic: Stop assuming things
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[16:38:00] Atavist of Logic: all the time
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[16:38:02] Atavist of Logic: its idiotic
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[16:38:14] t3h Icy: what is it I'm assuming that's wrong?
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[16:38:21] Atavist of Logic: everything
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[16:38:32] t3h Icy: [16:30:32] #18: 18 - Pidgeot - used in battle 1 times!
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[16:38:43] t3h Icy: #18 is pretty high for a shitty Pokemon
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[16:38:55] Atavist of Logic: Do you not understand that the stats are ongoing?
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[16:39:04] Atavist of Logic: Do you not understand basic probability?
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[16:39:12] t3h Icy: well even if you do compile a giant list
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[16:39:18] t3h Icy: after many, many battles
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[16:39:25] t3h Icy: it's coming from a variety of users
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[16:39:34] t3h Icy: who may or may not be using the Pokemon which are the best
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[16:39:36] Atavist of Logic: Which are mostly good battlers
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[16:39:48] t3h Icy: but perspectives and styles vary
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[16:39:49] Atavist of Logic: I only faced two noobs
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[16:39:52] Atavist of Logic: one wasn't too bad
125.
[16:39:54] t3h Icy: and it can affect the list
126.
[16:40:07] t3h Icy: a prime example is Jynx
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[16:40:11] Atavist of Logic: The list is more affected by the low amount of good people
128.
[16:40:23] t3h Icy: Jynx is a great lead sleeper, but after sleep, Jynx's usage suffers
129.
[16:40:40] Atavist of Logic: All of the Jynx uses are probably mine
130.
[16:40:48] Atavist of Logic: They hate Jynx
131.
[16:40:50] t3h Icy: I'm also a Jynx user
132.
[16:40:57] t3h Icy: but the thing is
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[16:40:59] Atavist of Logic: Yes but you haven't battled
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[16:41:09] t3h Icy: if we both were to battle frequently, Jynx would be high up on the list
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[16:41:17] t3h Icy: while not being the greatest OU Pokemon
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[16:41:54] Atavist of Logic: Well yeah there's always a way to screw it up, but I am encouraging that not to happen.
137.
[16:42:01] t3h Icy: heh
138.
[16:42:10] t3h Icy: and this is where my point of the list being incorrect is
139.
[16:42:19] t3h Icy: not "flawed logic" or anything
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[16:42:30] t3h Icy: you're basing data from somewhat randomness and style
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[16:42:47] Atavist of Logic: That doesn't make a difference.
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[16:42:57] t3h Icy: [16:41:54] Atavist of Logic: Well yeah there's always a way to screw it up, but I am encouraging that not to happen.
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[16:43:11] t3h Icy: you're telling me that won't make a difference if n00bs populate this server?
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[16:43:11] Atavist of Logic: You are talking about something else.
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[16:43:22] Atavist of Logic: Randomness in battle is woven in
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[16:43:27] t3h Icy: >_>
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[16:43:34] t3h Icy: I'm referring to randomness in teams
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[16:43:38] Atavist of Logic: Noobs aren't coming on
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[16:43:41] t3h Icy: I use different Pokemon all the time
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[16:43:51] t3h Icy: and what determines who is coming in?
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[16:43:55] Atavist of Logic: It's the optimal method
152.
[16:44:10] Atavist of Logic: No one said it was as sound as a theorem.
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[16:44:17] t3h Icy: if you're going about tier lists, you can simply discuss and go over Pokemon
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[16:44:28] t3h Icy: besides, what are you trying to accomplish?
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[16:44:36] Atavist of Logic: No, because that is not logical.
156.
[16:44:42] Atavist of Logic: That is just a weak opinion
157.
[16:45:00] t3h Icy: you can calculate damage, and effectiveness
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[16:45:05] Atavist of Logic: Even if it's discussed lots, people may forget on the day.
159.
[16:45:07] t3h Icy: instead of leaving it to human error in battles
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[16:45:15] t3h Icy: lolwut
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[16:45:18] Atavist of Logic: Netbattle can't do that
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[16:45:27] Atavist of Logic: It would be far more time consuming
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[16:45:35] Atavist of Logic: Humans can't evaluate perfectly
164.
[16:45:43] t3h Icy: calculators can
165.
[16:45:55] Atavist of Logic: So how would you go about that?
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[16:46:05] Atavist of Logic: Tell me your 'marvellous' plan.
167.
[16:46:16] t3h Icy: let's take Alakazam for example
168.
[16:46:36] t3h Icy: Reflect + 368 Special + Recover can essentially tank opponents, so long as you avoid criticals and FP
169.
[16:46:41] t3h Icy: Zam can spread paralysis
170.
[16:46:52] t3h Icy: Psychic can do varying amounts of damage, based on the opponents
171.
[16:47:12] t3h Icy: while it can deal with Physicals better than other stallers, like say Chansey, Alakazam gets stalled by Psychics
172.
[16:47:24] t3h Icy: Alakazam can work for paralysis and stalling
173.
[16:47:35] t3h Icy: but opposing Psychics are generally bested if eliminated first
174.
[16:47:46] t3h Icy: Psychic can do about 50% vs Tauros and is faster
175.
[16:47:54] t3h Icy: so generally, it's stallers that need to be dealt with
176.
[16:47:59] Atavist of Logic: So what are you going to do after you write a book?
177.
[16:48:11] t3h Icy: I already wrote the book
178.
[16:48:23] Atavist of Logic: lol
179.
[16:48:28] t3h Icy: http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/file/198314/54432
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[16:48:31] t3h Icy: go read
181.
[16:48:32] Atavist of Logic: sucks
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[16:48:39] Atavist of Logic: Written by a moron
183.
[16:48:47] t3h Icy: how does it suck?
184.
[16:49:13] Atavist of Logic: It's not comprehensive enough, competitively.
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[16:49:15] Atavist of Logic: That's all.
186.
[16:49:20] t3h Icy: example?
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[16:50:21] Atavist of Logic: None of them are written is maximum detail.
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[16:50:27] Atavist of Logic: All I'm saying
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[16:50:32] t3h Icy: what more detail would you suggest then?
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[16:50:54] Atavist of Logic: I don't want to spend time thinking about it
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[16:51:00] t3h Icy: lol
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[16:51:12] t3h Icy: well then your arguement of it sucking isn't worth much
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[16:51:57] t3h Icy: it provides stats, recommended movesets and usages, general damage on common opponents with common attacks, how to use, etc
194.
[16:52:10] t3h Icy: it already covers most of everything you would need to know
195.
[16:52:26] t3h Icy: what are you trying to accomplish with your list?
196.
[16:52:32] Atavist of Logic: Team mates?
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[16:52:33] RedSt0rm signed on.
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[16:52:41] Atavist of Logic: A whole paragraph on that?
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[16:52:51] t3h Icy: hmm?
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[16:53:06] t3h Icy: are you referring to Pokemon that work well together?
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[16:53:17] Atavist of Logic: Combos that work well
202.
[16:53:23] Atavist of Logic: there's always more to do
203.
[16:53:36] RedSt0rm signed off.
204.
[16:54:03] t3h Icy: that's mostly at the end where the generalized best Pokemon are discussed even more in-depthly
205.
[16:54:03] Atavist of Logic: yes, considering how you suck up so much to certain smogon members, you should know a bit more about competitive pokemon
206.
[16:54:10] t3h Icy: lol
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[16:54:16] t3h Icy: I don't suck up to Smogon at all
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[16:54:37] t3h Icy: actually, I happened to bash an idiot earlier
209.
[16:54:40] t3h Icy: well maybe not bash
210.
[16:54:50] t3h Icy: wait wait wait
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[16:54:59] t3h Icy: you aren't confusing me with a different Ice/Icy are you?
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[16:55:10] Atavist of Logic: no, T3h Icy
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[16:55:28] t3h Icy: lol well where am I sucking up to Smogon members?
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[16:55:33] Atavist of Logic: Vini
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[16:55:38] t3h Icy: lol
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[16:55:43] Atavist of Logic: wait
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[16:55:46] Atavist of Logic: whatever he's called
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[16:55:48] t3h Icy: I argued against him in a couple topics
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[16:55:50] t3h Icy: Vineon?
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[16:55:53] Atavist of Logic: yeah
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[16:56:02] t3h Icy: where do I suck up to him?
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[16:56:16] Atavist of Logic: You said he was the best battler
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[16:56:17] Atavist of Logic: lol
224.
[16:56:35] t3h Icy: oh lol that
225.
[16:56:36] t3h Icy: that's old
226.
[16:56:42] t3h Icy: here's something more recent
227.
[16:56:42] t3h Icy: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62603
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[16:57:14] Atavist of Logic: yeah I saw before
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[16:57:27] Atavist of Logic: He responded back to me moronically
230.
[16:57:29] t3h Icy: Vineon is old
231.
[16:57:33] t3h Icy: he's not good anymore
232.
[16:57:40] t3h Icy: well, on a scale of top players
233.
[16:57:51] t3h Icy: he's still one of the better players, but not near the top
234.
[16:57:52] Atavist of Logic: He said RBY isn't about teams.
235.
[16:57:54] t3h Icy: anyway
236.
[16:57:56] Atavist of Logic: That's so retarded
237.
[16:57:56] t3h Icy: and lol
238.
[16:58:20] t3h Icy: so what are you trying to accomplish with your list?
239.
[16:58:33] Atavist of Logic: Make tiers in a logical fashion
240.
[16:58:38] Atavist of Logic: free of controversy
241.
[16:58:50] t3h Icy: how directly is the list going to go into the tiers?
242.
[16:59:02] t3h Icy: is it going to be cut/paste or discussed briefly first?
243.
[16:59:11] t3h Icy: and will it be ranked?
244.
[16:59:18] Atavist of Logic: There's no discussion
245.
[16:59:31] Atavist of Logic: anything above 5% in teams becomes OU
246.
[16:59:42] t3h Icy: heh
247.
[16:59:50] t3h Icy: I really doubt that's going to turn out nicely
248.
[17:00:01] t3h Icy: will it be ranked?
249.
[17:00:12] Atavist of Logic: Well it will likely be an improvement on smogon's tiers at least
250.
[17:00:21] t3h Icy: true true
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[17:00:23] Atavist of Logic: which was done by incomplete discussion
252.
[17:00:27] t3h Icy: well
253.
[17:00:28] t3h Icy: lol
254.
[17:00:30] t3h Icy: leave Smogon
255.
[17:00:36] t3h Icy: why would you associate yourself there?
256.
[17:00:43] Atavist of Logic: I don't.
257.
[17:00:47] t3h Icy: OU include (but not limited to)
258.
[17:00:48] Atavist of Logic: I hate everything about it
259.
[17:01:08] Atavist of Logic: The staff are retarded faggots
260.
[17:01:25] t3h Icy: Alakazam, Tauros, Snorlax, Eggy, Chansey, Starmie, Lapras, Slowbro, Articuno, Zapdos, Gengar, Jynx, Rhydon and Golem
261.
[17:01:36] t3h Icy: based on rules though Cloyster and Dragonite are OU with Wrap
262.
[17:01:41] t3h Icy: without Cloyster is debatable
263.
[17:01:51] t3h Icy: as is Persian and Dugtrio
264.
[17:02:05] t3h Icy: but even if you do make a better tier list
265.
[17:02:12] t3h Icy: why would you care if Smogon updates it?
266.
[17:02:22] Atavist of Logic: When did I say that?
267.
[17:02:25] t3h Icy: or if that's not your intent, why do you need to make a tier list
268.
[17:02:40] Atavist of Logic: For my own purpose
269.
[17:02:48] Atavist of Logic: for the server
270.
[17:03:01] t3h Icy: so if a lot of people begin using Victreebel
271.
[17:03:07] t3h Icy: and Victreebel reaches the 5% mark
272.
[17:03:12] t3h Icy: would you call Victreebel OU?
273.
[17:03:20] t3h Icy: debatable with Wrap though
274.
[17:03:23] t3h Icy: but in general, BL at best
275.
[17:03:57] Atavist of Logic: Well why would any of us use victreebel
276.
[17:04:01] Atavist of Logic: You are making sense
277.
[17:04:17] Atavist of Logic: but you aren't thinking of the specific players
278.
[17:04:36] t3h Icy: well unless you have some sort of auto-banner, you're going to get varying people with varying teams
279.
[17:04:43] t3h Icy: myself, I use all sorts of different Pokemon
280.
[17:04:55] Atavist of Logic: Well there's no way you can stop that
281.
[17:04:56] t3h Icy: and the wrong Pokemon might end up in the wrong places
282.
[17:05:04] Atavist of Logic: using a data method
283.
[17:05:07] t3h Icy: but it's going to taint the list then
284.
[17:05:16] t3h Icy: and that's what you're basing tiers on
285.
[17:05:38] t3h Icy: even if you do get say me, yourself, Water Wizard and other good players
286.
[17:05:43] t3h Icy: everyone plays differently
287.
[17:05:47] t3h Icy: in my opinion
288.
[17:06:00] Atavist of Logic: Well it'll be likely that OU will be like 18
289.
[17:06:03] Atavist of Logic: in the end anyway
290.
[17:06:03] t3h Icy: a better method could be listing wins/ties/losses associated with each Pokemon
291.
[17:06:12] t3h Icy: but randomness of battle could affect that
292.
[17:06:15] Atavist of Logic: so no worthy poke should be excluded
293.
[17:06:26] Atavist of Logic: Yes but it's way more work
294.
[17:06:34] Atavist of Logic: nothing is saying it can't be done again
295.
[17:06:40] t3h Icy: but what if no one that goes here decides to use Exeggutor?
296.
[17:06:44] t3h Icy: true
297.
[17:06:49] t3h Icy: but how will you know when it's correct?
298.
[17:07:01] Atavist of Logic: Does any community know so?
299.
[17:07:25] t3h Icy: well if you're going to redo it, that will mean the list to be redone is flawed
300.
[17:07:32] t3h Icy: but who will it be that decides it is flawed?
301.
[17:07:35] Atavist of Logic: It's not possible to calculate due to different play styles - as you mentioned.
302.
[17:08:00] t3h Icy: not to mention different rulesets
303.
[17:08:02] Atavist of Logic: Does Smogon say their tier list is flawed and scrap it?
304.
[17:08:03] t3h Icy: mainly Wrap being legal or not
305.
[17:08:10] Atavist of Logic: Does any community?
306.
[17:08:20] t3h Icy: [17:06:34] Atavist of Logic: nothing is saying it can't be done again
307.
[17:08:28] t3h Icy: who would decide if it needs to be done again?
308.
[17:08:47] Atavist of Logic: If there is a more accurate method available
309.
[17:08:55] Atavist of Logic: But I can't see one
310.
[17:08:56] Atavist of Logic: yet
311.
[17:09:08] Atavist of Logic: Or for example, if there are more good players at hand
312.
[17:09:15] t3h Icy: debating would be the best, so long as only the good players are doing it
313.
[17:09:37] t3h Icy: me, Water Wizard and Zilch were doing RBY Little Cup by debating each and every Pokemon
314.
[17:09:42] Atavist of Logic: to lessen the outlying pokemon which are favourited
315.
[17:09:51] t3h Icy: and the Pokemon we dubbed as OU turned out to be the better ones
316.
[17:10:02] Atavist of Logic: I don't see people enough to do that
317.
[17:10:04] t3h Icy: because we went over all situations and uses
318.
[17:10:07] Atavist of Logic: Unfortunate time zone
319.
[17:10:16] Atavist of Logic: I barely manage two hours a day
320.
[17:10:18] t3h Icy: well why can't you do it forum style then?
321.
[17:10:25] Atavist of Logic: I can't have it lasting forever
322.
[17:10:26] t3h Icy: just leave messages and discussion notes
323.
[17:10:40] t3h Icy: but with more time put into it, the better the quality is in most cases
324.
[17:10:42] Atavist of Logic: They don't want to post on forums
325.
[17:10:48] t3h Icy: why not?
326.
[17:10:55] Atavist of Logic: Because people don't like it
327.
[17:10:59] Atavist of Logic: I don't know
328.
[17:11:03] Atavist of Logic: I've tried
329.
[17:11:10] t3h Icy: but it'd be a better way in going over the Pokemon
330.
[17:11:15] t3h Icy: have a topic about Persian
331.
[17:11:22] t3h Icy: each player can discuss their opinions on it
332.
[17:11:31] Atavist of Logic: What if people continue to not compromise?
333.
[17:11:31] t3h Icy: and using calculators, you can check damages, and the like
334.
[17:11:52] t3h Icy: well that's unlikely since Pokemon isn't opinionated
335.
[17:11:57] Atavist of Logic: Sounds like the stubborn ones will get what they want
336.
[17:12:08] t3h Icy: since in the deepest depths, there are things that can and cannot be done
337.
[17:12:24] Atavist of Logic: Play style
338.
[17:12:26] t3h Icy: well let's try it right now, me and you
339.
[17:12:26] Atavist of Logic: as you said
340.
[17:12:30] Atavist of Logic: affects calcs
341.
[17:12:30] t3h Icy: Play Style true
342.
[17:12:43] t3h Icy: like Alakazam
343.
[17:12:47] Atavist of Logic: There's too much uncertainty
344.
[17:12:53] t3h Icy: lead Zam and late Zam are different
345.
[17:13:18] t3h Icy: but if you discuss how it can benefit a team and weaken the opponents' you can work towards a compromise
346.
[17:13:37] t3h Icy: well me and you right now
347.
[17:13:42] t3h Icy: let's discuss Scyther
348.
[17:13:48] t3h Icy: what are your opinions on Scyther?
349.
[17:13:48] Atavist of Logic: oh please no
350.
[17:13:51] Atavist of Logic: lol
351.
[17:14:08] t3h Icy: why not?
352.
[17:14:23] Atavist of Logic: Because I'm tired
353.
[17:14:29] Atavist of Logic: It's 00.14
354.
[17:15:08] t3h Icy: well throughout this conversation, you've continually shut down my points by empty arguments and not addressing them directly
355.
[17:15:14] t3h Icy: my guide, my method and my opinion on the list
356.
[17:15:22] t3h Icy: yet you're called me an idiot and my logic flawed
357.
[17:15:31] t3h Icy: *you've
358.
[17:15:35] Atavist of Logic: What empty arguments?
359.
[17:15:37] Atavist of Logic: lol
360.
[17:15:55] Atavist of Logic: That's just your opinion.
361.
[17:16:00] t3h Icy: my guide sucks
362.
[17:16:07] t3h Icy: but you never explained why
363.
[17:16:42] Atavist of Logic: Was it discussed with peers?
364.
[17:17:12] t3h Icy: Sticky Topic (aka SamTheDigitial), Zilch, Water Wizard briefly, Nerd, and others
365.
[17:17:24] t3h Icy: I also gathered data from GGFan, Smogon, and numerous others
366.
[17:17:30] t3h Icy: then sorted out which is true and not
367.
[17:17:30] Atavist of Logic: lol GGfan
368.
[17:17:31] Atavist of Logic: xd
369.
[17:17:38] t3h Icy: as well as did my own researching
370.
[17:17:55] t3h Icy: it wasn't entirely from my information
371.
[17:18:02] t3h Icy: I discussed it a lot and read a lot
372.
[17:18:34] Atavist of Logic: Anyway, I was just saying it sucks to troll you more than anything.
373.
[17:18:40] Atavist of Logic: I admit there was no basis.
374.
[17:18:49] Atavist of Logic: I'm sorry.
375.
[17:18:57] t3h Icy: I figured after awhile, but I went along with it
376.
[17:19:03] t3h Icy: it's cool if you're sorry =)
377.
[17:19:26] t3h Icy: but I still think that using a forum approach would be better
378.
[17:19:33] t3h Icy: and likewise with your list
379.
[17:19:35] Atavist of Logic: Then you do it
380.
[17:19:37] t3h Icy: it can be redone
381.
[17:19:42] Atavist of Logic: I'm not going to be a slave
382.
[17:19:45] t3h Icy: well, I would need enough people
383.
[17:19:45] Atavist of Logic: to your wishes
384.
[17:20:00] t3h Icy: would you, Lutra and others be interested in that method?
385.
[17:20:18] Atavist of Logic: I can't say I would, I've got too much to do.
386.
[17:20:34] t3h Icy: it doesn't need to be done immediately
387.
[17:20:37] Atavist of Logic: I play pokemon in all gens, I do scripting, school and other things too.
388.
[17:20:40] t3h Icy: my guide took years to do
389.
[17:20:51] t3h Icy: well that's the nice thing about forums
390.
[17:20:59] t3h Icy: it can be left there and done bit by bit
391.
[17:21:19] Atavist of Logic: Isn't that wasting a lot for little accomplishment?
392.
[17:21:24] t3h Icy: likewise, I play RBY, several other games competitively, and many other non-gaming related hobbies
393.
[17:21:31] t3h Icy: no because I had fun writing it
394.
[17:21:42] t3h Icy: also there was no other at the time
395.
[17:21:51] t3h Icy: the closest would be Jolt's but it's really old
396.
[17:21:53] t3h Icy: so I did my own
397.
[17:22:04] Atavist of Logic: Well then well done
398.
[17:22:06] Atavist of Logic: for doing it
399.
[17:22:28] Atavist of Logic: What do you plan to make now?
400.
[17:22:43] Atavist of Logic: Further develop it?
401.
[17:22:46] t3h Icy: I've written other guides, and I write a lot about sociology and such on numerous other boards
402.
[17:23:00] t3h Icy: and I've updated it I think 2 major times already
403.
[17:23:05] t3h Icy: and yes, I'm still adding more once in awhile
404.
[17:23:41] t3h Icy: you should read parts of it
405.
[17:24:02] t3h Icy: like I said though, the more in-depth for Pokemon that actually matter is near the end
406.
[17:24:02] Atavist of Logic: ok
407.
[17:24:10] t3h Icy: but I do a full analysis of every final form
408.
[17:24:21] t3h Icy: even things like Golbat and Fearow
409.
[17:25:10] t3h Icy: and only mathematical points are set in stone
410.
[17:25:44] t3h Icy: since much of the guides are opinion-based (mine), I rarely say something is the best and there are no other ways
411.
[17:25:49] Atavist of Logic: Each new tier level will be anything lower than the tier level above. Tiers will be balanced if they reach a certain centralisation requirement.
412.
[17:25:53] t3h Icy: but for say Gengar is the fastest sleeper and such
413.
[17:26:21] t3h Icy: yes but we already know what tier most Pokemon are in, save for a few debatable ones
414.
[17:26:23] t3h Icy: in your opinion
415.
[17:26:25] t3h Icy: is Chansey OU?
416.
[17:26:41] Atavist of Logic: My tiers aren't based on opinion
417.
[17:26:42] Atavist of Logic: xd
418.
[17:26:47] Atavist of Logic: I can't say
419.
[17:26:49] Atavist of Logic: lol
420.
[17:26:51] t3h Icy: they're based on usage by different people
421.
[17:26:53] t3h Icy: and why not?
422.
[17:27:02] t3h Icy: well if you had to take a stab at it
423.
[17:27:03] Atavist of Logic: OU = Over Used
424.
[17:27:09] t3h Icy: Uber, OU, BL, UU, NU
425.
[17:27:14] t3h Icy: which would most likely fit Chansey?
426.
[17:27:23] Atavist of Logic: OU
427.
[17:27:25] Atavist of Logic: xd
428.
[17:27:27] t3h Icy: ok
429.
[17:27:32] t3h Icy: how about Alakazam?
430.
[17:27:36] Atavist of Logic: OU
431.
[17:27:39] t3h Icy: etc
432.
[17:27:48] t3h Icy: minding Pokemon like Dugtrio, Cloyster, etc
433.
[17:27:55] t3h Icy: you can pretty much name where most Pokemon already go
434.
[17:28:13] Atavist of Logic: Yes but it's the start of the process
435.
[17:28:19] Atavist of Logic: we won't know for lower tiers
436.
[17:28:24] Atavist of Logic: of which there may be many
437.
[17:28:39] t3h Icy: that's true
438.
[17:28:41] t3h Icy: UU is untapped
439.
[17:28:47] t3h Icy: but look at the list as it is now
440.
[17:28:52] Atavist of Logic: If the data proves to be as accurate as possible, then we will have confidence
441.
[17:28:53] t3h Icy: there are almost no UU Pokemon
442.
[17:28:56] Atavist of Logic: in the lower tiers
443.
[17:29:04] t3h Icy: well why don't use ban OU Pokemon here
444.
[17:29:12] t3h Icy: and OU, by meaning, obvioulsy OU Pokemon?
445.
[17:29:31] t3h Icy: then you can see where UU Pokemon go
446.
[17:29:35] Atavist of Logic: Because the tier needs to be bigger
447.
[17:29:44] Atavist of Logic: It can't have 8 pokemon
448.
[17:29:47] Atavist of Logic: or whatever
449.
[17:29:52] t3h Icy: well I know that
450.
[17:30:19] t3h Icy: OU Pokemon: Chansey, Exeggutor, Snorlax, Alakazam, Tauros, Golem, Starmie, Zapdos, Gengar
451.
[17:30:23] t3h Icy: would you argue with any of those?
452.
[17:31:06] Atavist of Logic: Probably not, but there's no point separating them for the data collection
453.
[17:31:41] t3h Icy: ok so "probably not" to those 9 Pokemon
454.
[17:31:41] Atavist of Logic: It's not like we are doing a strict ranking
455.
[17:31:49] Atavist of Logic: it's whats is used
456.
[17:31:56] t3h Icy: how about Slowbro, Articuno, Jynx and Lapras
457.
[17:32:11] Atavist of Logic: Well Lapras and Jynx certainly
458.
[17:32:27] t3h Icy: ok so that's 11 Pokemon at least
459.
[17:32:39] t3h Icy: that's almost 2 entire teams of OU Pokemon
460.
[17:32:52] t3h Icy: so the tier doesn't need to be bigger since it already is
461.
[17:33:04] t3h Icy: and BL Pokemon can be used in OU matches
462.
[17:33:11] t3h Icy: so long as they're specific use is used
463.
[17:33:15] Atavist of Logic: Any pokemon can
464.
[17:33:19] Atavist of Logic: potentially
465.
[17:33:26] Atavist of Logic: BL doesn't mean OU Lite
466.
[17:33:28] t3h Icy: so then there's no worry of small tiers
467.
[17:33:38] Atavist of Logic: BL means Banned from OU
468.
[17:33:40] Atavist of Logic: UU*
469.
[17:33:50] t3h Icy: OU doesn't mean BL are banned though
470.
[17:34:01] Atavist of Logic: I didn't say that
471.
[17:34:07] t3h Icy: [17:29:35] Atavist of Logic: Because the tier needs to be bigger
472.
[17:34:08] t3h Icy: [17:29:44] Atavist of Logic: It can't have 8 pokemon
473.
[17:34:27] Atavist of Logic: What are you saying?
474.
[17:34:35] Atavist of Logic: I have no idea what you are getting at.
475.
[17:34:45] t3h Icy: I suggested banning OU Pokemon since you're trying to find the usage of UU Pokemon
476.
[17:34:59] Atavist of Logic: Not now
477.
[17:34:59] Atavist of Logic: after
478.
[17:35:17] t3h Icy: but you countered that the tier needs to be bigger
479.
[17:35:23] t3h Icy: when the OU Pokemon are already obvious
480.
[17:35:42] t3h Icy: so why not skip a step if you're doing a speedier approach than forums?
481.
[17:35:54] Atavist of Logic: I'm saying that because it's more than likely that pokemon will exceed 5%
482.
[17:36:04] Atavist of Logic: I'm not demanding that
483.
[17:36:37] Atavist of Logic: Sorry - in reference to 18 pokemon
484.
[17:36:52] Atavist of Logic: As far as 8 pokemon goes, it's way too small.
485.
[17:37:02] t3h Icy: what 8 Pokemon are you talking about?
486.
[17:37:09] t3h Icy: the Pokemon most commonly used in OU?
487.
[17:37:13] Atavist of Logic: yes
488.
[17:37:18] Atavist of Logic: I don't know if it is 8
489.
[17:37:20] Atavist of Logic: just a guess
490.
[17:37:23] t3h Icy: but why would you try to expand it with crappier Pokemon?
491.
[17:37:24] Atavist of Logic: But the super OU
492.
[17:37:34] Atavist of Logic: as opposed to the lower OU
493.
[17:37:39] t3h Icy: yes yes
494.
[17:37:44] t3h Icy: but a prime example is Rhydon/Golem
495.
[17:37:49] t3h Icy: Rhydon is basically the same
496.
[17:37:54] t3h Icy: but Golem is better in most cases
497.
[17:38:07] t3h Icy: so why would you try to expand Super OU with Rhydon, if it already has Golem?
498.
[17:38:21] t3h Icy: would you try to expand it with Kangaskhan so more people don't just use Tauros
499.
[17:38:39] t3h Icy: having a tier list with "Lower OU" isn't going to make a Pokemon better
500.
[17:38:46] t3h Icy: and since it's not better, it still won't be getting used
501.
[17:38:59] Atavist of Logic: I'm referring to Zapdos, Persian etc as lower
502.
[17:39:00] Atavist of Logic: btw
503.
[17:39:19] t3h Icy: but why are you trying to expand Super OU?
504.
[17:39:42] t3h Icy: just because it's expanded with worse Pokemon like PErsian, doesn't mean they'll suddenly be used more
505.
[17:39:45] Atavist of Logic: I'm expanding Super OU to become OU
506.
[17:39:55] t3h Icy: isn't that just OU then?
507.
[17:40:21] Atavist of Logic: Wouldn't this just create an excess of tiers?
508.
[17:40:32] Atavist of Logic: A ridiculous amount
509.
[17:40:47] t3h Icy: no because you'll have OU, BL, UU and perhaps NU
510.
[17:41:05] t3h Icy: you said you're trying to expand the tiers
511.
[17:41:12] t3h Icy: which is what they already are
512.
[17:41:12] Atavist of Logic: No, I'll have more tiers than that
513.
[17:41:26] t3h Icy: Top OU, Middle OU, Lower OU for example?
514.
[17:41:40] Atavist of Logic: It's an expression
515.
[17:41:41] t3h Icy: [17:36:52] Atavist of Logic: As far as 8 pokemon goes, it's way too small.
516.
[17:41:46] Atavist of Logic: for how staple they are
517.
[17:41:54] t3h Icy: how would you go abouts making Top OU larger then?
518.
[17:42:00] Atavist of Logic: I'm not
519.
[17:42:13] t3h Icy: but you said that 8 is way too small
520.
[17:42:18] Atavist of Logic: for OU
521.
[17:42:20] Atavist of Logic: I said
522.
[17:42:21] Atavist of Logic: clearly
523.
[17:42:30] t3h Icy: 8 in OU as a whole or 8 in Top OU?
524.
[17:43:20] Atavist of Logic: I said super ou to become ou
525.
[17:43:28] Atavist of Logic: not super ou to becomes as large as ou
526.
[17:43:38] t3h Icy: and what would be the purpose of that?
527.
[17:43:49] Atavist of Logic: What?
528.
[17:43:55] t3h Icy: to make Super OU become OU?
529.
[17:44:08] Atavist of Logic: Because of the excessive tier issue
530.
[17:44:20] t3h Icy: but why would that change what people use in their teams?
531.
[17:45:03] Atavist of Logic: It doesn't, it just makes things like Jynx UU or BL
532.
[17:45:32] t3h Icy: but Jynx is one of the better Pokemon
533.
[17:45:50] Atavist of Logic: not one of the most used
534.
[17:45:59] Atavist of Logic: One of the lesser OU
535.
[17:46:16] t3h Icy: [17:45:03] Atavist of Logic: It doesn't, it just makes things like Jynx UU or BL
536.
[17:46:44] Atavist of Logic: What don't you understand?
537.
[17:47:15] t3h Icy: you said 8 is too small for OU
538.
[17:47:33] t3h Icy: and I'm trying to figure out why you would expand that, rather than just banning OU so you can sort UU Pokemon quicker
539.
[17:47:36] Atavist of Logic: Yes and that quoted statement agrees
540.
[17:47:54] Atavist of Logic: So you want Jynx to be UU/BL?
541.
[17:48:22] t3h Icy: well what if after many more battles, Jynx is still considered BL/UU based on the list?
542.
[17:48:40] Atavist of Logic: Then likely excessive tiers will exist
543.
[17:48:50] Atavist of Logic: which is what I've said many times
544.
[17:49:00] t3h Icy: but Jynx is still a great Pokemon
545.
[17:49:11] Atavist of Logic: Furthermore, what makes a pokemon top OU?
546.
[17:49:25] Atavist of Logic: Well you are the one putting it down
547.
[17:49:33] t3h Icy: by being one of the best, even in an OU environment
548.
[17:49:34] Atavist of Logic: By saying it shouldn't be in OU
549.
[17:49:42] Atavist of Logic: a staple
550.
[17:49:44] Atavist of Logic: that is
551.
[17:50:37] t3h Icy: Jynx can deal with most OU Pokemon
552.
[17:50:43] t3h Icy: and is considered one of the best sleep leads
553.
[17:50:53] Atavist of Logic: so why make it UU/BL?
554.
[17:50:57] t3h Icy: but it's not used as often as it's usefulness implies due to other sleepers
555.
[17:51:25] t3h Icy: Jynx wouldn't be BL/UU because she works well as an OU Pokemon, except that your list will imply she's BL/UU
556.
[17:51:48] Atavist of Logic: She's never going to be a top OU
557.
[17:51:56] Atavist of Logic: unfortunately
558.
[17:52:00] t3h Icy: correct, but not bad enough to be BL/UU
559.
[17:52:06] t3h Icy: she would be "lower OU"
560.
[17:52:12] t3h Icy: but your list may suggest she is BL/UU
561.
[17:52:19] t3h Icy: which is why I'm saying
562.
[17:52:26] Atavist of Logic: And you implied that lower OU goes to UU/BL
563.
[17:52:28] t3h Icy: skip a step and ban OU Pokemon, and just do UU Pokemon
564.
[17:52:36] t3h Icy: how so?
565.
[17:53:01] Atavist of Logic: You consistently said leave all top ou as just a tier.
566.
[17:53:16] t3h Icy: but that doesn't mean to dump them in UU/BL
567.
[17:53:26] Atavist of Logic: So they fly off?
568.
[17:54:01] Atavist of Logic: If you omitted them, that would just be pointless
569.
[17:54:07] t3h Icy: well if Jynx were to be "BL", she would be considered broken
570.
[17:54:24] t3h Icy: well again, what if your list gives inaccurate results based on specific tiers of OU?
571.
[17:54:39] t3h Icy: what if Gengar ends up in Top OU?
572.
[17:54:47] Atavist of Logic: It is a top OU
573.
[17:54:55] t3h Icy: Gengar is a great lead yes, but afterwards, it's main use is exploding and taking explosions
574.
[17:55:09] Atavist of Logic: which is a big part of the game
575.
[17:55:25] Atavist of Logic: it's also a lesser special wall
576.
[17:55:28] Atavist of Logic: don't forget
577.
[17:55:34] t3h Icy: see this is why we're in a constant arguement, because I'm basing tiers on function and usefulness, whereas you're basing it on frequency of usage
578.
[17:56:13] t3h Icy: Gengar is one of the most common Pokemon and based on how you do tiers, it would be Top OU
579.
[17:56:28] t3h Icy: but in the way I'm doing it, Gengar loses a lot of usefulness after putting an opponent to sleep
580.
[17:56:50] t3h Icy: I would consider Gengar Middle OU
581.
[17:57:03] t3h Icy: perhaps the bottom of Top OU
582.
[17:57:05] t3h Icy: depends
583.
[17:57:24] Atavist of Logic: It doesn't lose usefulness
584.
[17:57:26] Atavist of Logic: I disagree
585.
[17:57:42] t3h Icy: well what do you use Gengar against after putting a Pokemon to sleep?
586.
[17:57:53] t3h Icy: Alakazam, Exeggutor and Tauros can all beat it
587.
[17:57:56] t3h Icy: Snorlax can
588.
[17:58:00] Atavist of Logic: Why would you use Gengar if it was only good at sleeping?
589.
[17:58:13] t3h Icy: because sleeping is an important part of the game
590.
[17:58:26] t3h Icy: but once that "phase" is over, Gengar loses a lot of potential
591.
[17:58:44] t3h Icy: which is why some players use Exeggutor more often, because Eggy can do many more things beyond sleep
592.
[17:59:05] Atavist of Logic: There are enough faster sleepers than eggy
593.
[17:59:09] t3h Icy: Gengar has trouble against most of what would be "Top OU"
594.
[17:59:11] t3h Icy: true
595.
[17:59:17] t3h Icy: but who says you have to lead with it?
596.
[17:59:42] t3h Icy: why does Eggy need to be fast to be a good sleeper, unless you're going to lead with it?
597.
[17:59:53] Atavist of Logic: Regardless, if sleep is an important part of the game, then its usefulness would be that much greater.
598.
[18:00:03] Atavist of Logic: So that argument is kind of confusing
599.
[18:00:12] t3h Icy: well take Eggy
600.
[18:00:21] t3h Icy: it's useful for putting the opponent to sleep
601.
[18:00:36] t3h Icy: after that it can counter Grounds, stall somewhat, paralyze, explode, resist
602.
[18:00:48] t3h Icy: it's still useful after sleeping
603.
[18:00:48] Atavist of Logic: And it's not a fast sleeper
604.
[18:00:54] t3h Icy: that's why you don't lead with it
605.
[18:01:17] Atavist of Logic: Which doesn't make it less useful at all
606.
[18:01:28] t3h Icy: what?
607.
[18:01:36] t3h Icy: Eggy is useful after putting an opponent to sleep
608.
[18:01:48] t3h Icy: Gengar is somewhat useful after putting an opponent to sleep
609.
[18:01:51] Atavist of Logic: It's useful all the time
610.
[18:02:01] t3h Icy: but Eggy is more useful
611.
[18:02:10] Atavist of Logic: What has this got to do with anything?
612.
[18:02:17] Atavist of Logic: It's really perverse.
613.
[18:02:27] t3h Icy: because while Gengar may or may not be used for than Eggy
614.
[18:02:30] t3h Icy: Eggy is better
615.
[18:02:32] t3h Icy: overall
616.
[18:02:54] t3h Icy: so a more frequently used Pokemon may not be better
617.
[18:02:54] Atavist of Logic: It's used more
618.
[18:02:59] t3h Icy: but not more useful
619.
[18:03:16] Atavist of Logic: Eggy is not more useful?
620.
[18:03:23] t3h Icy: Gengar is not more usefu
621.
[18:03:30] t3h Icy: I'm not referring to the chart as it is now
622.
[18:03:31] Atavist of Logic: Eggy is higher
623.
[18:03:33] Atavist of Logic: usage
624.
[18:03:46] Atavist of Logic: It generally is
625.
[18:03:47] Atavist of Logic: tbh
626.
[18:04:02] Atavist of Logic: Chansey, Tauros, Eggy
627.
[18:04:03] t3h Icy: perhaps, but even if, would similar examples follow suit?
628.
[18:04:04] Atavist of Logic: big three
629.
[18:04:27] Atavist of Logic: t3h Icy: see this is why we're in a constant arguement, because I'm basing tiers on function and usefulness, whereas you're basing it on frequency of usage
630.
[18:04:47] t3h Icy: well I'm trying to prove why my method is better
631.
[18:04:51] Atavist of Logic: Usefulness is proportional to frequency if players are perfectly competitive
632.
[18:04:51] t3h Icy: whereas you're doing the same
633.
[18:05:11] t3h Icy: would you say Starmie is more useful than Alakazam?
634.
[18:05:20] t3h Icy: just because it's been used more?
635.
[18:05:27] t3h Icy: and if so, why?
636.
[18:05:31] Atavist of Logic: I'm trying to achieve perfect competitiveness
637.
[18:05:50] Atavist of Logic: Well it has more coverage
638.
[18:05:59] Atavist of Logic: It's more likeable I think
639.
[18:06:01] t3h Icy: [16:34:24] t3h Icy: yes, but once you reach a certain level, it becomes more Rock-Paper-Scissors like
640.
[18:06:16] Atavist of Logic: What are you talking about?
641.
[18:06:21] t3h Icy: think about leads
642.
[18:06:26] Atavist of Logic: I'm assuming that
643.
[18:06:29] t3h Icy: what's the best lead?
644.
[18:06:33] t3h Icy: in your opinion?
645.
[18:06:50] Atavist of Logic: My opinion is that they all suck
646.
[18:06:51] Atavist of Logic: xd
647.
[18:07:00] t3h Icy: if you had to pick one, which one?
648.
[18:07:29] Atavist of Logic: Jynx just because it has that shut down potential
649.
[18:07:35] t3h Icy: ok
650.
[18:07:53] t3h Icy: but a Gengar lead can put Jynx to sleep more often than not
651.
[18:07:57] t3h Icy: but
652.
[18:08:00] Atavist of Logic: I know.
653.
[18:08:02] t3h Icy: Alakazam could beat Gengar
654.
[18:08:09] t3h Icy: and Jynx could put Alakazam to sleep
655.
[18:08:18] t3h Icy: it's Rock, Paper, Scissors
656.
[18:08:22] Atavist of Logic: And they are all OU
657.
[18:08:24] t3h Icy: except you have a ton of selections
658.
[18:08:37] t3h Icy: yes, but you said you're having more tiers than just that
659.
[18:08:48] t3h Icy: and what if a player chooses Rock more than Scissors?
660.
[18:08:50] Atavist of Logic: No, I never.
661.
[18:08:56] t3h Icy: would that mean Rock is better than Scissors
662.
[18:09:01] t3h Icy: yes you did
663.
[18:09:05] Atavist of Logic: I didn't.
664.
[18:09:17] t3h Icy: [17:41:12] Atavist of Logic: No, I'll have more tiers than that
665.
[18:09:30] Atavist of Logic: Than what?
666.
[18:09:41] t3h Icy: than Uber, OU, BL, UU, possibly NU
667.
[18:09:56] Atavist of Logic: Well you didn't say that
668.
[18:10:09] Atavist of Logic: I meant lower tiers
669.
[18:10:15] t3h Icy: [17:40:47] t3h Icy: no because you'll have OU, BL, UU and perhaps NU
670.
[18:10:15] t3h Icy: [17:41:05] t3h Icy: you said you're trying to expand the tiers
671.
[18:10:15] t3h Icy: [17:41:12] t3h Icy: which is what they already are
672.
[18:10:15] t3h Icy: [17:41:12] Atavist of Logic: No, I'll have more tiers than that
673.
[18:10:25] t3h Icy: so again
674.
[18:10:29] Atavist of Logic: You're confusing me now
675.
[18:10:39] t3h Icy: why not ban OU Pokemon if you're trying to divide lower tiers?
676.
[18:10:48] t3h Icy: because if OU Pokemon are legal
677.
[18:10:52] t3h Icy: who's going to be using lower tiers?
678.
[18:11:01] Atavist of Logic: What don't you get?
679.
[18:11:02] t3h Icy: especially if you're making this place n00b free
680.
[18:11:09] Atavist of Logic: OU is the dominant tier
681.
[18:11:18] Atavist of Logic: all tiers below that are based off it
682.
[18:11:33] Atavist of Logic: I am doing lower tiers just for the fun of it
683.
[18:11:35] t3h Icy: but how are you going to sort UU Pokemon based on your list if nobody uses them?
684.
[18:11:43] Atavist of Logic: They will
685.
[18:11:48] t3h Icy: ok then
686.
[18:11:48] Atavist of Logic: because they want to
687.
[18:12:00] Atavist of Logic: I will ban OU when UU starts
688.
[18:12:04] t3h Icy: but if they do, what if that imbalances your list and have UU over OU?
689.
[18:12:10] t3h Icy: ok then
690.
[18:12:24] t3h Icy: but how will you compare how UU Pokemon do vs OU?
691.
[18:12:32] t3h Icy: in UU, Pokemon like Venomoth and Weezing are great
692.
[18:12:40] t3h Icy: but in OU, there are too many Psychics
693.
[18:12:54] t3h Icy: so if I were to play UU vs OU, I would use different Pokemon than UU vs UU
694.
[18:13:03] Atavist of Logic: That's the whole point
695.
[18:13:15] Atavist of Logic: You are just trying to see it in your own way
696.
[18:13:22] Atavist of Logic: and not the common way
697.
[18:13:36] t3h Icy: well how do you know how good UU Pokemon are against OU Pokemon if they never face OU Pokemon?
698.
[18:13:37] Atavist of Logic: I'm doing it the sensible way
699.
[18:13:41] Atavist of Logic: what most people do
700.
[18:13:54] Atavist of Logic: I'm not ranking that
701.
[18:13:59] Atavist of Logic: I never said
702.
[18:14:04] Atavist of Logic: that
703.
[18:14:08] t3h Icy: not ranking what?
704.
[18:14:15] Atavist of Logic: OU against UU
705.
[18:14:40] t3h Icy: but then the list of UU Pokemon is technically incorrect, and only based on the UU metagame
706.
[18:14:47] t3h Icy: Kingler can possibly work in OU
707.
[18:14:51] t3h Icy: since it can beat Tauros
708.
[18:14:53] NatanMaia signed on.
709.
[18:14:59] Atavist of Logic: what's your point?
710.
[18:15:03] Atavist of Logic: It's not incorrect
711.
[18:15:05] NatanMaia signed off.
712.
[18:15:07] Atavist of Logic: It's how it's done
713.
[18:15:16] t3h Icy: in UU, Electrics are used a little more frequently, and espcially Grasses
714.
[18:15:27] t3h Icy: so Kingler will be low in UU vs UU, despite being more capable vs OU
715.
[18:15:57] Atavist of Logic: The fact you think that is an issue is silly
716.
[18:16:03] t3h Icy: how so?
717.
[18:16:20] Atavist of Logic: It's not how well they do in OU
718.
[18:16:38] Atavist of Logic: It's just dependent on OU because OU is removed
719.
[18:16:55] t3h Icy: and this is where our differences will clash once again
720.
[18:16:59] Atavist of Logic: Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
721.
[18:17:04] t3h Icy: Kingler is a better Pokemon overall though
722.
[18:17:15] Atavist of Logic: Your way is illogical I have to say
723.
[18:17:23] Atavist of Logic: It's your unconventional opinion
724.
[18:17:32] t3h Icy: well I'm comparing all Pokemon together in tiers
725.
[18:17:37] Atavist of Logic: I don't hear this from anyone else.
726.
[18:17:45] Atavist of Logic: Well do it your way
727.
[18:17:48] t3h Icy: how all Pokemon do in the top level competition
728.
[18:17:51] Atavist of Logic: I'm not stopping you
729.
[18:17:59] Atavist of Logic: gn
730.
[18:18:01] t3h Icy: I don't intend to
731.
[18:18:01] Atavist of Logic: anyway
732.
[18:18:04] Atavist of Logic signed off.