[11:07:08] <drantin> anyone have any references to the cedega stealing d3d developer?
[11:07:36] <kommerck> yeah
[11:07:38] <drantin> sorry, i subscribed to cedega several years ago... i use that for guild wars...
[11:07:38] <kommerck> an irc log
[11:07:50] <drantin> kommerck: have it archived somewhere?
[11:07:56] <kommerck> http://pastebin.ca/121319
[11:11:23] Thunderbird [n=roderick@sailsup.xs4all.nl] hat #linux-gamers.net betreten
[11:11:26] <drantin> ...so? you don't submit code to both those you work for and the public unless it's specifically allowed, they didn't steal him, they offered him a job and he accepted, he therefore left... seems almost like a standard non-compete clause...
[11:13:02] <kommerck> well
[11:13:20] <kommerck> he isn't allowed to work on wine anymore
[11:13:50] <drantin> yeah, that's because cedega is in direct competition with it...
[11:14:25] <drantin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause
[11:14:43] <gaminggeek> well that sucks
[11:15:03] <kommerck> wine isn't a cedega concurrent
[11:15:12] <kommerck> crossover may be
[11:15:17] <kommerck> but not wine
[11:15:26] <kommerck> since wine is a oss project
[11:15:28] <gaminggeek> Why does'nt he gove code to you to submit :D
[11:15:37] <drantin> just because it isn't commercial, doesn't mean it isn't competing...
[11:15:44] <gaminggeek> pah transgaming at poo
[11:16:02] <drantin> this looks like jave's fault, not tg's ...
[11:16:24] <kommerck> legally it might be OK but if we think of opensource we think about moral first, don't we
[11:16:29] <drantin> he presumably read the contract before signing it...
[11:16:51] <drantin> oss thinks about the software first free software things about the morals...
[11:17:03] <kommerck> yeah, he isn't as biased as we and they paid him much
[11:17:11] <gaminggeek> yea but its the fact that they are putting in there that they can't do stiff for wine I think
[11:17:27] <drantin> he read the contract first, right?
[11:17:33] <kommerck> they took themselves a wine version years ago
[11:17:36] <gaminggeek> I hope transgaming die soon >=[
[11:17:43] <kommerck> and now discourage people on working on it
[11:17:49] <drantin> yes, and that version was completely legal to do with what they did
[11:18:00] <kommerck> as I said _legally_ it's ok
[11:18:06] <kommerck> call it capitalism
[11:18:09] <kommerck> agressive marketing
[11:18:16] <kommerck> as you wish
[11:18:39] <drantin> all he had to do was say, "you know what? i like working with wine, i'll stick with it."
[11:18:40] <gaminggeek> What was he doing for wine?
[11:18:46] <drantin> d3d development
[11:18:49] <drantin> as the topic says
[11:18:51] <gaminggeek> :(
[11:19:02] <gaminggeek> yea but What in d3d dev
[11:19:09] <kommerck> GLSL support
[11:19:15] <gaminggeek> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
[11:19:17] <kommerck> thanks to him wine supports now ps 2.0
[11:19:17] <gaminggeek> :(
[11:19:22] <Thunderbird> ps3.0
[11:19:23] <kommerck> and most of 3.0
[11:19:27] <gaminggeek> :(
[11:19:32] <Thunderbird> the support is mostly done
[11:19:38] <Thunderbird> it are mainly bugs that need to be fixed
[11:19:40] <gaminggeek> #$$%!#@%@##$%@#$%@ transgaming!
[11:20:05] <gaminggeek> I bet they want him to do that for thier product
[11:20:25] <gaminggeek> 'cause transgaming has been working on that for months
[11:20:30] <gaminggeek> oh
[11:20:32] <drantin> ...it was his fault... tg saw a someone who could do faster than they could what they needed and offered him a job...
[11:20:46] <drantin> and he decided he didn't need to finish what he was involved with first...
[11:20:46] <Thunderbird> it was different
[11:21:10] <Thunderbird> he actually contacted transgaming for questions about d3d stuff
[11:21:26] <gaminggeek> oh
[11:21:26] <Thunderbird> and then they talked a bit and in the end they asked if he wanted a job
[11:21:42] <drantin> they're working him in a different area so that when he gets to work on d3d stuff the code will be different from mainline wine
[11:22:04] <kommerck> the point is he can't work on wine d3d anymore
[11:22:11] <kommerck> wined3d*
[11:22:12] <drantin> and that it's his fault
[11:22:35] <gaminggeek> well if he isnt dong d3d stuff for cedega what does it matter
[11:22:56] <drantin> he will end up doing d3d for cedega, but there is a cooling off period first
[11:23:04] <gaminggeek> ah
[11:23:41] <kommerck> not everyone has such a strong will as ESR
[11:23:51] <kommerck> or is as biased
[11:23:57] <kommerck> as some of us
[11:24:24] <drantin> it's sad yes, but it doesn't look to me like tg was being evil...
[11:24:38] <gaminggeek> drantin, do you code?
[11:24:44] <drantin> no
[11:24:49] <gaminggeek> What do you do?
[11:25:26] <drantin> waiting 2 years to get out of the us navy...
[11:25:35] <drantin> then head off to college...
[11:25:56] <gaminggeek> hmm
[11:26:03] <gaminggeek> What are you going to study?
[11:26:23] <drantin> computer science, not sure just what field within to specialize in...
[11:26:27] <kommerck> drantin: and when M$ offered Daniel Robbins a job and he took it suddenly M$ was evil
[11:26:43] <drantin> ...M$ was evil way, way before that...
[11:27:05] <gaminggeek> transgaming was evil way before that too :P
[11:27:14] <drantin> why?
[11:27:17] <gaminggeek> anyway he quit MS
[11:27:35] <gaminggeek> they imorraly nicked wine
[11:27:37] drantin just remembered who drobbins was...
[11:28:03] <drantin> some people seem to have an odd definition of morality...
[11:28:27] ara [n=ara@c-630de353.01-94-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] hat #linux-gamers.net betreten
[11:28:53] <gaminggeek> well What if you where working on a project and then someone took it and sold it and gave a handfull of weak patches?
[11:29:11] <kommerck> I think accepting help from people and then peeing at them is moral?
[11:29:22] <kommerck> s/I/you/
[11:30:57] <drantin> wine specifically chose a license that people could do that with, in fact in 2000 they changed over from BSD to X11 instead of GPL...
[11:31:09] <kommerck> err
[11:31:15] <kommerck> from BSD to LGPL
[11:31:23] <drantin> LGPL was adopted in 2002
[11:31:32] <kommerck> after that
[11:31:40] <kommerck> well
[11:31:50] <kommerck> as I said legally it's ok
[11:31:51] <drantin> i'm pulling this from the wine mailing list..
[11:33:03] <gaminggeek> drantin, that was probebly to help codeweavers who help wine
[11:33:20] <drantin> they didn't move over to LGPL until over a year after winex 1.0 was released... either they were just slow moving or they didn't care for a while...
[11:34:02] <drantin> hm... nm
[11:34:23] <kommerck> and now see what tg does... they also advertise such things as "close collaboration with wine project"
[11:34:51] <drantin> i thought they stopped that a while ago?
[11:35:08] <kommerck> and if they're asked about wine contribution they point to nine-ten patches sent in 2004
[11:35:27] <kommerck> and it's enough for the most to shut up
[11:35:38] <kommerck> now they still use wine lgpl dlls
[11:35:50] <kommerck> sure they release the source on their cvs
[11:36:21] <kommerck> but that's all that is to understand under the interoperability
[11:36:30] <kommerck> they don't add constructive patches to that dlls
[11:36:49] <ara> so legally they haven't done anything wrong yet ? or just morally ?
[11:37:11] <kommerck> nah, legally they're still clean
[11:37:24] <kommerck> unless someone leaks their source and finds wined3d pieces in it
[11:37:31] <Thunderbird> also the way they are importing LGPL wine dlls
[11:37:33] <ara> then this will continue for sometime. I've been wondering why they haven't been sued yet
[11:37:45] <kommerck> Thunderbird: that's what I'm talking about, it's fine
[11:37:47] <Thunderbird> there are areas like msi.dll on which codeweavers has been working for months
[11:37:54] <Thunderbird> and then they copy it over
[11:38:28] <drantin> lgpl dlls would actually be allowed...
[11:38:48] <gaminggeek> drantin, I did no think wine 1 was out yet
[11:38:51] <Thunderbird> but it isn't 'nice' of them ..
[11:39:06] <drantin> winex 1 ... not wine 1...
[11:39:14] <gaminggeek> oh
[11:39:17] <drantin> cedega used to be called winex
[11:39:18] <Thunderbird> codeweavers who puts a lot of money in wine and transgaming getting the code ..