[17:23] * Now talking in #Neither
[17:23] * Topic is 'Neither/Darkwar development. || Look down from your mech cockpit at the scraps of ravaged and destroyed civilizations. Step on them. (mercury) || http://www.digitalfunk.org/darkwar/wiki/ (Randy)'
[17:23] * Set by Caleb!~Caleb@72.232.48.140 on Sun Apr 23 22:00:08
[17:24] <LordHavoc> zinx: where as when it's maxed out, every player gets the same game state (rather than whichever frame was most recent when their packet came in), and it becomes more like a rapid turn based game, it begins to matter which frame an input packet comes in on
[17:24] <LordHavoc> zinx: but the frames are still processed sanely
[17:25] <LordHavoc> zinx: (I.E. it still behaves like players expect, but their clients have to do more interpolation/extrapolation)
[17:26] <LordHavoc> zinx: there is a definite downside to this main-loop design though
[17:26] <LordHavoc> zinx: in that it does not have predictable timesteps, and thus clients can't synchronize to the server timestep for Tribes-style player prediction
[17:26] <LordHavoc> zinx: so it's prone to speed cheats (like QW)
[17:27] <LordHavoc> zinx: Tribes player prediction is the only cheat-proof method I've seen thus far
[17:29] <LordHavoc> zinx: the clients know how often the server frames occur, and they produce input at that rate, and predict at that rate, and the input packets include the frame number they are intended for, the server applies input each frame (no matter whether it got new input or not, so motion from the last input is continued, like in NQ), and can buffer input up to one frame in the future (artificial lag to keep sync)
[17:29] <Randy> yo
[17:29] <LordHavoc> zinx: the client behaves gracefully in the case that its input was lost by the server, because it can predict the same way
[17:29] <LordHavoc> hi Randy
[17:29] <Randy> whats new on the DW front
[17:30] <LordHavoc> Randy: I watched the quakecon etqw video
[17:30] <Randy> ooh, progress :P
[17:30] <LordHavoc> Randy: I think DarkWar has less competition from ETQW than previously expected
[17:30] <LordHavoc> Randy: simply because DarkWar is aiming at high player counts, ETQW at low (8-24)
[17:30] <Randy> where can I get said video
[17:30] <LordHavoc> Randy: both have similar ideas about the 'front lines' though
[17:30] <LordHavoc> Randy: http://www.planetquake4.net
[17:30] <LordHavoc> Randy: top news item
[17:31] <LordHavoc> Randy: in ETQW objectives are captured and each has a circle around it on the map, with an arrow pointing at the next objective
[17:31] <LordHavoc> Randy: when an objective is captured, the spawn points for both teams update to focus on that area
[17:31] <LordHavoc> Randy: (like Serious Sam coop)
[17:31] <LordHavoc> Randy: and new vehicles and structures may be available to build
[17:32] <LordHavoc> Randy: they're focusing on intense action even with low player counts
[17:32] <Randy> dang, I should have downloaded those vids at work :P
[17:32] <LordHavoc> Randy: DarkWar should do alright in that case on the smaller maps (which might only have a single linear series of bases to fight
over), but in the larger maps there will be multiple conflict areas (bases that can be captured)
[17:32] <Randy> to save my data cap
[17:33] <LordHavoc> Randy: 260MB or so on the etqw one
[17:33] <Randy> yeah
[17:33] <Randy> im interested in the modding one too
[17:33] * Echon[econ] is now known as Echon
[17:33] <LordHavoc> Randy: another thing I think is more interesting in DarkWar than ETQW is the deployment of turrets and artillery guns and such
[17:34] <LordHavoc> Randy: in ETQW you decide where you want one deployed, and an aircraft comes in and drops it off
[17:34] <LordHavoc> Randy: in DarkWar you build a turret factory, and when one finishes building you hop in a dropship and pick it up and drop it off where you want it deployed
[17:34] <LordHavoc> Randy: which can make for some very interesting outpost construction for one thing... :)
[17:35] <LordHavoc> Randy: (a whole squad of players picking up facilities they want to deploy somewhere out on the landscape)
[17:35] <LordHavoc> Randy: definitely some different ideas between the two
[17:36] <LordHavoc> Randy: other ideas are the same though, for instance it has classes with specific weapon loadouts
[17:36] <LordHavoc> Randy: and all the items are visible on their model, all their animations are specific to that class, etc
[17:36] * Kazashi (~Kazashi@ppp10-6.lns1.syd7.internode.on.net) has joined #Neither
[17:36] <LordHavoc> Kazashi: I'll paste some stuff I just said to Randy
[17:37] <Randy> how are you going to account for people dropping turrents on the side of cliffs and stuff ?
[17:38] <Kazashi> LordHavoc: thanks
[17:39] <Kazashi> Hmmm, interesting
[17:40] <LordHavoc> Randy: what do you mean? if the physics engine doesn't drop it off the cliff, it's a valid place, though if the turret starts firing it might fall off if it's too steep
[17:40] <LordHavoc> Randy: also note that dropships can pick up ENEMY things and drop them intentionally
[17:40] <LordHavoc> Randy: ... including on other enemy things :)
[17:40] <Randy> ok what do these things look like? :)
[17:41] <LordHavoc> Randy: drop a tank on an enemy turret for instance :)
[17:41] <Randy> I was thinking a fixed structure turret
[17:41] <LordHavoc> Randy: I'm not sure what they should look like :)
[17:41] <Randy> are they heavily armored ?
[17:41] <LordHavoc> Randy: yes
[17:42] <Randy> and what do they fire ?
[17:42] <LordHavoc> Randy: BTW this gives me another idea - what if there's a bomb factory, and dropships can pick up a bomb and drop it on things
[17:42] <LordHavoc> Randy: there may be multiple kinds of turret, but at the very least there will probably be a railgun turret (anti-vehicle)
[17:42] <Randy> then you have BomberMan, in 3d
[17:43] <LordHavoc> more like bomberman crossed with Thrust :)
[17:46] <LordHavoc> Thrust is an old side view game where you fly a little spaceship down through a very perilous maze/dungeon like environment full of automated turrets that shoot at you, sometimes other things also (fuel tanks for you to use, barrier walls that can be opened by shooting switches, etc), and finally picking up a ball and then flying back out (with the added challenge of physics - the ball can easily smash into you if you're not careful, or send you hurtling
[17:46] <LordHavoc> into a wall)
[17:50] <LordHavoc> the physics of a tether are fascinating :)
[17:51] <LordHavoc> so being a dropship pilot won't be easy in DarkWar
[17:51] <LordHavoc> but it will be very useful
[18:07] <LordHavoc> it's kind of interesting to me how physics plays a big part in the mechanics of DarkWar but thus far I've never claimed it to be 'physics based gameplay' :P
[18:07] * Randy sketches
[18:07] * Kazashi (~Kazashi@ppp10-6.lns1.syd7.internode.on.net) Quit ("bbl")
[18:08] <Randy> I almost wish I had my wacom tablet again
[18:08] <LordHavoc> (unlike Valve, whose HL2 game did not involve physics to such a degree in the actual GAMEPLAY :)
[18:08] <LordHavoc> you know, I think I figured out now what Valve thought was 'physics based gameplay'
[18:09] <LordHavoc> they think that the reactions of scanners when you whack them with the crowbar is "physics based gameplay" ;)
[18:10] <Randy> it had a lot of physics puzzles
[18:11] <Randy> I remember having to catapult my buggy over a wall at some point
[18:12] <LordHavoc> actually it was more a matter of catapulting your air boat :P
[18:12] <LordHavoc> or making a ramp for it at least
[18:13] <LordHavoc> I consider taht to be 'physics based frustration' (ala Trespasser), not 'physics based gameplay' :)
[18:26] * LordHavoc is now known as LordHavoc|sleep
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[18:48] <Kazashi> There, hardware's all installed
[18:54] <Randy> I need some method of rapid drawing
[18:54] <Randy> on the pc
[19:01] <Kazashi> Tablet isn't rapid enough?
[19:01] <Randy> I dont have a tablet :P
[19:02] <Randy> never could get to a productive point with it
[19:11] <Randy> have you seen the modding video? pretty cool stuff
[19:11] <Kazashi> Haven't watched it yet
[19:18] <Randy> they were going to make a system for mappers where you set the latitude and longitude, year, month, day, time, etc
[19:18] <Randy> and it would make the skybox with the correct celestial bodies and lighting generated from them
[19:21] <Randy> but the artists didn't like it because they couldn't paint the sky
[19:25] <Randy> haha
[19:25] <Randy> Jitspoe is there
[19:25] <Randy> and he's asking questions
[19:41] <Kazashi> Hmmm, interesting
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[20:40] <Kazashi> mmmm, this CPU is nice. The video card isn't doing too badly either, for a generic card I picked up for $150
[20:43] <Randy> :)
[20:43] <Randy> I sketched a turret thing
[20:43] <Kazashi> Cool
[20:43] * Willis (Willis@68-187-86-157.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com) has joined #Neither
[20:44] <Kazashi> Using what?
[20:47] <Randy> a pen
[20:48] <Kazashi> A what? ;P
[20:48] <Randy> I know, I havent used a pen since highschool
[20:48] <Randy> oh
[20:49] <Randy> in the ET:QW modding vid, they said they wikied EVERYTHING to death
[20:49] <Kazashi> Heh, interesting
[20:49] <Randy> and they're going to release all the info in some form or another
[20:49] <Kazashi> How big is the video?
[20:49] <Randy> ~260mb
[20:49] <Randy> about 35 mins of presentation, Q&A
[20:49] <Kazashi> Ok. I'll download that later
[20:51] <Randy> http://www.digitalfunk.org/darkwar/turret.JPG
[20:51] <Randy> stupid uppercase jpg things
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[21:07] <Randy> comments?
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[21:34] <Randy> :(
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