[14:54] <@Imperialles> If anything, we should clear the entire Inq roster and hold new elections, similar to when it was established.
[14:55] <Toprawa> heh, hence the glaring loophole of volunteer work
[14:55] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Same here. Darth Real Life is too formidable right now.
[14:55] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Imp: I wouldn't be against it.
[14:55] <@GreenTentacle> Bah!
[14:56] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Though I would be hesitant to outright agree to that drastic of a measure.
[14:56] <Toprawa> even if that were to take place, likely many would still remain on the roster. im not sure a lot would be changed/solved
[14:56] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Well, a lot of names would cease from the roster.
[14:56] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> The "smaller" list would implore more people to nominate active users.
[14:57] <@Imperialles> StarNeptune, Jaina Solo, Breathesgelatin...
[14:57] <Toprawa> the inactive people, i would assume.
[14:57] <Toprawa> per Imp
[14:57] <Toprawa> the active people would remain.
[14:57] <@Imperialles> Hydro, Havac...
[14:57] <@Havac> Hiya.
[14:57] <Toprawa> heh
[14:57] <Redemption> 4dots would even have to go.
[14:57] <@Culator|Work> Or, though this will be unpopular, just confer inq powers on the admins.
[14:57] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Hi, Havac.
[14:57] <+Jedimca0|Busy> I think the Inqs who are inactive should step down... and the ones that are active should stay... I don't think that just starting new elections will work.
[14:57] <Redemption> It seems that he doesn't really READ the articles.
[14:57] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Culator: That would be very unpopular.
[14:57] <Toprawa> per Fiolli.
[14:57] <@Imperialles> Not all admins can be trusted with article quality.
[14:58] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> per Imp.
[14:58] <@Culator|Work> Probably true.
[14:58] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> This is sounding like a Mofference all of a sudden.
[14:58] <@Imperialles> Jedimca0: But how do we get those people to leave?
[14:58] <Toprawa> agree with Imp. i dont think there are enough admins who have to "skills"
[14:58] <+Jaymach> I can get people to leave...I've been semi-successful with it in the past
[14:58] <@Imperialles> When they get warned, they come back for a few days, then return to obscurity.
[14:59] <@Imperialles> Thus mucking up any removal efforts.
[14:59] <@GreenTentacle> Aren't all but two Inqs admins anyway?
[14:59] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Not to bring this up as a fight, but why cannot a Mofference be called to discuss this among other things?
[14:59] <+Jaymach> (GreenTentacle): the suggestion was to make admins inqs, not inqs admins
[15:00] <@GreenTentacle> I know.
[15:00] <@Imperialles> Mofferences tend to be a bit messy.
[15:00] <@GreenTentacle> But it proves that there are enough admins who can do it.
[15:00] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Ok.
[15:00] <@GreenTentacle> Even if they don't. :P
[15:00] <+Jedimca0|Busy> Imperialles: I'd say just tell them to do the work they are supposed to do or they'll be "forced" to step down. Hmm…. Maybe we should make a "de-Inq thing" just like we have a removal of adminship page.
[15:00] <@StarNeptune> oh sigh
[15:01] <+Jedimca0|Busy> I'm not sure...
[15:01] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Well, it would be witchhuntery.
[15:01] <+Jedimca0|Busy> I know, that's why I'm not sure.
[15:01] <@GreenTentacle> We're not "supposed" to do anything.
[15:01] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Culator|Work > You like that idea?
[15:01] <@Imperialles> If only they would resign themselves...
[15:01] <@Culator|Work> Which idea?
[15:01] * @Imperialles looks at Havac, StarNeptune
[15:01] <@Culator|Work> I can't follow everything here.
[15:01] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Witchhunt of Inqs per Jedimca0 ?
[15:01] <@Culator|Work> Stupid customers.
[15:02] * @Havac stares down Imp.
[15:02] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> lol
[15:02] <@StarNeptune> Not all of us spend 24/7 on the site, Imp
[15:02] <@Culator|Work> I'm always in favor of witch hunts.
[15:02] * +Jedimca0|Busy actually hates witchhunts
[15:02] <+Jaymach> Havac can just fall back on the "I'm an anon" excuse most of the time
[15:02] <+Jaymach> because he's too damn lazy to sort his problems out
[15:02] <+Jedimca0|Busy> but if it's the only way to do it...
[15:02] <@Imperialles> Then why do you insist on being an Inq?
[15:02] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> StarNeptune: I am with you 100%, but . . . I have to ask why be an Inq?
[15:02] <@Imperialles> Which requires you to spend quite some time on the site?
[15:02] <@StarNeptune> I review articles when I have time
[15:03] <Toprawa> the problem of Inq inactivity lies in exactly what GT said. no one is "supposed" to do anything. that kind of defeats the purpose.
[15:03] <@StarNeptune> Lately I've been spending a lot of time away from the site due to personal reasons
[15:03] <@Imperialles> You can't force people to do anything.
[15:03] <+Jedimca0|Busy> I agree with Toprawa
[15:03] <@Imperialles> Then resign as an Inq, and open a slot for someone else.
[15:03] <Toprawa> you cant force them to do anything, but you can take away their position if they dont
[15:03] <@StarNeptune> are you going to hold that against me?
[15:03] <@StarNeptune> If so, then so be it.
[15:03] <@Imperialles> You can return as an Inq when you return to the site.
[15:04] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Are there seriously a set number of slots, Imp?
[15:04] <@Culator|Work> You say "open a slot" like there's a limited number.
[15:04] <+Jaymach> there's slots? O.o
[15:04] <@GreenTentacle> The answer is to appoint more Inqs, not to start removing them.
[15:04] <@StarNeptune> There is no limited number
[15:04] <@Culator|Work> This isn't like the senate or something.
[15:04] <@GreenTentacle> Plus, Imp's the one who always says being an admin is about trust.
[15:04] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> If it was we would definitely get nothing done.
[15:04] <@GreenTentacle> It's the same thing with being an Inq.
[15:05] <@GreenTentacle> If your opinion was trusted once, it should still be.
[15:05] <@GreenTentacle> Even if you only vote once a year.
[15:05] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> I agree with GT, it might be time to ask a couple of inactives to step down, but possibly add two or three more.
[15:05] <@Imperialles> Not necessarily.
[15:05] <@Imperialles> I don't necessarily trust admins who return from year-long absences.
[15:06] <@Havac> I don't trust admins who return from deep-sea fishing.
[15:06] <@StarNeptune> IRONY
[15:06] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> That is a different story though; we are talking the difference between powah and quality of an article.
[15:06] <@StarNeptune> You've been gone 6 months at a time, Imp
[15:06] <+Jedimca0|Busy> GreenTentacle: More Inqs is good, if that works... but if people talk about "slots" the only reason to get new Inqs is if "old" inqs step down...
[15:06] <@StarNeptune> so please STFU
[15:06] <@Imperialles> Hey, 'twas GT's example.
[15:06] <@GreenTentacle> There are no slots.
[15:06] <+Jedimca0|Busy> *way not reason
[15:06] <@Imperialles> If you can't keep a civil tone, please don't even bother typing, Neptune.
[15:06] <+Jedimca0|Busy> the only way.
[15:06] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> !civility
[15:06] <Toprawa> agreed. no need to get nasty here.
[15:07] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Darn, I was hoping that would work.
[15:07] <Toprawa> heh
[15:07] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Look . . . there is a big difference between being an admin and an inq:
[15:07] <+Jedimca0|Busy> I agree
[15:07] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> An admin needs to be abreast of the changes in the site
[15:07] * Jedimca0|Busy is now known as Jedimca0
[15:07] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> An Inq only needs to concern with article quality.
[15:07] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Big difference.
[15:07] <@GreenTentacle> Just kill off any concept of a limit to Inq numbers, appoint people who are willing to do it and who's opinion can be trusted and we're done.
[15:08] <@Havac> Bingo.
[15:08] <@Culator|Work> Like candy.
[15:08] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Agreed.
[15:08] <@Imperialles> And remove people who don't do their job.
[15:08] <+Jedimca0> Per GreenTentacle
[15:08] <@GreenTentacle> *whose
[15:08] <+Jaymach> (Imperialles): they don't have a job
[15:08] <@Culator|Work> I feel like launching a paper airplane. I'm so bored.
[15:08] <@GreenTentacle> Imperialles: It's a job? When do I get paid? :P
[15:08] <Toprawa> i wish i could stay for this lovely debate. but class beckons. have a good afternoon, everyone.
[15:08] <+Jaymach> like everyone in here has pointed out, you can't force people to do anything
[15:08] * @Imperialles facepalms
[15:09] <@Culator|Work> In five minutes, I'll be busy with an idiot customer. Right now, I'm bored as hell.
[15:09] * Toprawa (n=814f7348@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-8c1a0e85adbe5d5a) Quit ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
[15:09] <+Jaymach> if you trust their judgment on article quality, keep them...even if they'll only vote once a year
[15:09] <+Jaymach> if you don't, lose them
[15:09] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Imp: If they are completely gone for wp for six months, I might not disagree . . .
[15:09] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> but other than maybe a couple . . . I'm not sure that is the case.
[15:09] <@Imperialles> Eh.
[15:09] <+Jaymach> it's not like they're hindering the process by being inq's who don't vote
[15:09] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> *from wp . . .
[15:09] <@Imperialles> I guess I'll just continue asking people to resign.
[15:09] <@Culator|Work> And sometimes it works.
[15:10] <+Jedimca0> sometimes... we need something that works all the time... "new" Inqs will work.
[15:10] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Agreed.
[15:10] <Redemption> Not really.
[15:11] <Redemption> If we appoint new Inqs everytime a current Inq doesn't do their job, we'll run out of users pretty quickly.
[15:11] <+Jaymach> if you trust every user on the site to be an inq then I pity your judgment
[15:11] <@GreenTentacle> We'll still run out if we sack them.
[15:11] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Red: per GT.
[15:12] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> That's the thing; we need 5 Inqs for an FA nom.
[15:12] <+Jedimca0> Per GreenTentacle
[15:12] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Therefore, there always will need to be about 10-13 of them.
[15:12] <+Jaymach> you just appoint people who can make a valued opinion and critique articles....if you have 50 people that are like that who all vote once a month, then you'll still get articles through
[15:12] <+Jaymach> it just means that the work load will be spread out
[15:12] <@GreenTentacle> Per Jaymach.
[15:12] <@Havac> We're not running out of articles. They're still getting through.
[15:13] <+Jedimca0> I agree with Jaymach
[15:13] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Exactly.
[15:13] <@Imperialles> My idea of a perfect Inq is a small, effective team of reviewers, not a large user group of privileged people.
[15:13] <@StarNeptune> Who said there was a Inq cap, btw?
[15:13] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Wow . . . I'm agreeing with Jaymach.
[15:13] <@GreenTentacle> StarNeptune: Imp apparently.
[15:13] <@StarNeptune> Oh, right
[15:13] <+Jaymach> (Imperialles): then you're an elitist idiot who wants to force people to work when you have no right to
[15:13] <@Havac> Imp: that's very nice.
[15:13] <@StarNeptune> Because he makes the decisions for all of us
[15:13] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Imp: I'm not disagreeing; Necessity is the unfortunate dictator at this point.
[15:13] <@Havac> No one else is obligated to have your vision of the perfect Inq, however.
[15:14] <+Jaymach> if you can find a small group of people who all want to devote their entire free time to reviewing articles, then go ahead
[15:14] <+Jaymach> if not, don't force people to be like that
[15:14] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> All the personal attacks aside, what did we exactly accomplish above?
[15:15] <+Jedimca0> all we need at this point is a few more active Inqs.
[15:15] <@Imperialles> Neptune and Havac got defensive; Jaymach is being pedantic as usual.
[15:15] <+Jaymach> if the inq's were getting paid to review the articles, I'd agree with Imp...as it's meant to be something people do in their free time for fun, however, there's just no way I can agree
[15:15] * Imperialles was kicked by Havac (What was that stuff about keeping it civil or not posting?)
[15:16] * Imperialles (n=Imp@wikia/Imperialles) has joined #wookieepedia
[15:16] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o Imperialles
[15:16] <Redemption> Lovely.
[15:16] <Redemption> Really. Lovely.
[15:16] <@Imperialles> I am being civil.
[15:16] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> Okay! Stop!
[15:16] <@Imperialles> Please, don't do that.
[15:16] <@Havac> Then stop telling everyone they're not allowed to criticize you, but you can rip on anyone you please.
[15:16] <@Imperialles> I never said anything of the sort.
[15:17] <+Jaymach> especially when it's the one time I'm -not- being pedantic :P
[15:17] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> :)
[15:17] <@Imperialles> What I meant was that you misinterpreted my comment regarding the ideal Inq.
[15:17] <Redemption> He said it was "his idea".
[15:17] <Redemption> Unless I saw "This is the perfect inq..."
[15:18] <+Jaymach> you want a small group of people who you personally trust to review every article, yes?
[15:18] <Redemption> Then I can't recall forcing anything onto anyone.
[15:19] <@Imperialles> Not necessarily every article; what I meant was that I don't want a large user group of people who have special powers in a democratic process to evolve.
[15:19] <+Jedimca0> we need more active Inqs, "new" or "old" does not matter as long as they're active.
[15:19] <+Jaymach> they very much -don't- have special powers though
[15:19] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> The only power they have is the approval of an FA.
[15:19] <+Jaymach> if someone is an inq, then they have the basic intelligence needed to review an article properly
[15:19] <@GreenTentacle> Indeed.
[15:20] <+Fiolli|Aroundish> So what, so my votes doesn't count, but I can object just like an inq.
[15:20] <@StarNeptune> Heaven forbid we elect more people to approve an FA!
[15:20] <@GreenTentacle> And the more Inqs there are the less special their "power" becomes.
[15:20] <@GreenTentacle> Surely that's a good thing.
[15:20] <+Jaymach> if someone is not an inq, then they may still have that intelligence, you're just giving them permission to be part of the "in crowd" who can decide for the wiki
[15:22] <+Jaymach> if everyone who's elected has this basic intelligence that's required, then the same articles will still get through, they'll just be reviewed MORE from different points of view...it's not that these people will suddenly lose their intelligence and go "HOMG I LOVE THIS EDITOR HIS ARTICLE PASSES"
[15:22] <@Imperialles> I'm not saying that's going to happen.
[15:22] <+Jaymach> then I fail to see your problem with allowing more people to review an article before it passes
[15:23] <+Jaymach> unless, as I said earlier, you see the Inq as some sort of elitist group
[15:25] <@Imperialles> No, I see the Inq as a team of article reviewers.
[15:25] <@StarNeptune> So why not have more article reviewers?
[15:25] <@StarNeptune> It's not going to hurt antything
[15:25] <@Imperialles> I never said we shouldn't appoint new Inqs.
[15:25] <@Imperialles> I said we should kick the Inqs who do *nothing*.
[15:26] <+Jaymach> if they truly do literally nothing, then I agree....if, however, they only review articles when they can...then I disagree completely
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03[15:27] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v JorrelFraajic
[15:27] <+Jedimca0> Per Jaymach
[15:27] <+Jaymach> being an inq isn't a job...these people don't get payment, they have no real responsibilities...if anything, it's a hobby
[15:27] <+JorrelFraajic> What's up with the Inqs?
[15:27] <@StarNeptune> Imp wants to force some us to resign
[15:28] <@Imperialles> Oh, please. I'm asking you, not telling you.
[15:28] <+Jedimca0> and we need more of them.
[15:28] <Redemption> It's not like you'd lose anything...
[15:28] <Redemption> Except that image that always breaks. Yeah. Big loss.
[15:29] <+JorrelFraajic> ...and the only vote worth a shit on the FAN page.
[15:30] <Redemption> But it's not worth anything if it's not even being used.
[15:30] <@StarNeptune> I have used it recently
[15:30] * Smog (n=ap@75-132-213-44.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[15:30] <+JorrelFraajic> Well, yeah, that's what I meant, Red.
[15:30] <@StarNeptune> Not often enough, apparently, but whatever
[15:30] * Smog (n=ap@75-132-213-44.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) has joined #wookieepedia
[15:31] <Redemption> I'm speaking in general. Not directing anything towards anyone in particular.
[15:33] <@Imperialles> Anyway, I agree that we need new Inqs.
[15:33] <@Imperialles> But in order to appoint new ones, we're going to have to schedule an Inq meeting.
[15:33] <+Jaymach> even though some of the appointments will be obvious :P
[15:34] <@StarNeptune> There is an Inq meeting already scheduled
[15:34] <@Imperialles> In all likelihood, not that many candidates will be approved.
[15:34] <@GreenTentacle> Imperialles: There's already a page set up for one.
[15:34] <@Imperialles> Well, then.